S2E7: Dirty Laundry

[00:00:00] Speaker A: This podcast is a collaboration between costart and Touchstone Productions and the Dads from the Crypt podcast. Hello, everybody. My name is Alan Katz. [00:00:14] Speaker B: And I'm Gil Adler, and we'd like. [00:00:17] Speaker A: To welcome you to another episode of the how not to make a movie podcast. Today's episode is called Dirty Laundry. You know, if you really want to know what's happening on a film or tv set, the last people you should come talking to is Gil or me. We. We know fuck all about what is happening on a movie or tv set at any particular time. The people you really want to talk to are the pretties, hair and makeup and wardrobe. Today's guest was one of our wardrobe people on tales from the crypt. Randall Thropp has a whole history unto himself right now. He works for Paramount. He's been in charge of their incredible wardrobe collection for 20 years. It is a dream job for someone like Randall, who's a movie lover and is also. He's great at wardrobe. [00:01:22] Speaker B: And just think, a lot of it just started because working on Talisman, the crypt with us. [00:01:26] Speaker A: Oh, gosh, yes. [00:01:28] Speaker B: Oh, and even before, I think, Alan, you knew him way before. [00:01:32] Speaker A: We are going to talk about our history, because I've known Randall 40 years. God, I'm 63. 40. Yeah. 40 years. That's shocking. That's shocking. Hey, without any further ado, that's how. [00:01:48] Speaker B: You make an entrance. [00:01:49] Speaker C: That's how you make an entrance. [00:01:51] Speaker A: So we were just saying that actually, you and I have known each other. All right. It's gotta be 1979. Yeah, yeah, 1979. Boy, I don't think I have enough fingers and toes easily. [00:02:09] Speaker C: 1979. Yep. [00:02:11] Speaker A: You figured out how many years that Jerry brought you. [00:02:15] Speaker C: You guys were at Vassar, and Jerry brought you down to the house in Bronxville. [00:02:22] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. [00:02:23] Speaker C: I don't know what the event was, but there was just like. It was a weekend, I guess. It was just. [00:02:28] Speaker A: Well, I mean. I mean. All right, so I went to Vassar. And among my friends at Vassar, Washington, a young woman named Alison Shooker, now a woman, but. And Allison lived in Bronxville. And her family, she had a younger sister, Frannie, her mom and her dad. They also had someone who lived in this massive house atop a hill in Bronxville, New York. Randall lived in the attic, but it was a two attic. [00:02:58] Speaker C: It was a third floor. Don't make me sound like David Copperfield or something. [00:03:06] Speaker A: There's a movie with David Attenborough. The bliss of Misses Blossom. [00:03:11] Speaker C: Yeah, no, I was not in the attic. I had a very large, very nice bedroom on the third floor. [00:03:17] Speaker A: It was massive. No, this was. You could have, you could have held an NFL game in that attic. [00:03:22] Speaker C: I think that we had almost 30 rooms in the whole. [00:03:27] Speaker A: House. [00:03:28] Speaker C: It was. [00:03:28] Speaker A: A lot of people lived in it. [00:03:29] Speaker C: Well, it was a Normandy chateau. It was built in 1903 for the Lawrence family, which was for their son, the Lawrences of Sarah Lawrence College. And so it was built for their son. And, yes, it was quite, quite a nice house. [00:03:45] Speaker A: It was extraordinary. So I got to meet the shookers, and I got to meet Randall when I was there. Now, in particular, Greg Shooker was a fascinating guy. And Greg was a documentary filmmaker. Yes, he had a, worked on a number of documentaries. His claim to fame. He won an Emmy for this. He'd been working on a documentary with and about Martin Luther King for a couple of months before he was assassinated. And literally, I think he had said goodbye to King a couple of weeks. [00:04:24] Speaker C: I think it was on the day of, if I remember the day of. [00:04:26] Speaker A: It was, it was really like right up. [00:04:28] Speaker C: He was flying back. He was flying back from Memphis. [00:04:31] Speaker A: That's right. [00:04:31] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:04:32] Speaker A: Right. [00:04:33] Speaker C: Yeah. And that was my understanding. Yes. But, you know, it's interesting, on IMDb, his credits are not all on there. And, you know, he won for the chair. He won the Grand Prix at Cannes. And also he, well, yes, he won the Emmy. He won Venice film festival awards. And none of that is on IMDb. There's only, I think, four or five credits on there. But they don't even mention the Martin Luther King. [00:05:01] Speaker A: He won an Emmy for that. I mean, so after. And then King dies, and suddenly he was thrown into an editing room and put this. [00:05:08] Speaker C: And he also narrated it. He was the narrator. I mean, Greg was a, he was not only a writer, he was a producer. He was a cinematographer. And he really was a well rounded guy and very knowledgeable on film, film history, that sort of thing. He started, I'll tell you, he did start. He was, I think, in the mid 1950s, he was with a group of students who went to the Soviet Union, which was during the height of the Cold War, and he photographed a of stuff in the Soviet Union. And then Life magazine picked that up, and he was hired not long after that at life as a correspondent. And he was with Life magazine. And during, I forget which, which project he was working on, where he met Drew, Robert Drew from Drew associates. And that's when the ideas started about documentary filmmaking, because it really wasn't that. It wasn't that popular at the time, but Greg was really one of the pioneers of documentary filmmaking that was accessible to people. [00:06:08] Speaker A: Right. The kind of realistic. The documentarian is right there in it was. [00:06:13] Speaker C: Yeah. Cinema verte. Movie. [00:06:14] Speaker A: Cinema verte. Thank you. [00:06:15] Speaker C: Yeah, it was. He was. Yes. [00:06:16] Speaker A: Yeah. He was really one of the creators of cinema Veritas. [00:06:20] Speaker C: He really was. And he traveled, you know, all over the world, and. But he was a great writer, too. But, you know, my takeaway, Greg. I mean, Greg and I were very close. I mean, he was like a second dad, and, you know, he never stopped. Never really stopped working, even though he wasn't working. He was always reading. He read. He was a voracious reader, and he read books, and he was always trying to figure out what could be sold or purchased and turned into a script, a screenplay. Da da da da da. I mean, he was always on the hustle like that. [00:06:49] Speaker A: I remember that about him. He was trying to make. To make it. [00:06:55] Speaker C: Yes. He was determined that it was going to happen again, and it never quite did, because as documentary filmmaking, I mean, it's too bad that he didn't live to see what documentary filmmaking has become, because now it is quite popular, and you have so many outlets, I mean, with all the streaming services, and it's just tragic that he didn't get to fulfill what he really loved to do. [00:07:18] Speaker A: If he had existed in the time of Netflix, he'd be doing. Oh, my God, he. [00:07:24] Speaker C: Very talented. Very, very talented. [00:07:26] Speaker B: What happened to him? [00:07:27] Speaker A: He was a alcoholic, unfortunately. [00:07:29] Speaker C: Well, yeah, but he did. He. He did go through aa, and he was sober, but he. He had got cancer and died at 67, so he was not very old in the. [00:07:41] Speaker A: The alcoholism, really, it, you know, it. I think it impacted his ability to work, but it was, you know, he had all this talent and, you know, he should have been. It wasn't his fault. It's just the world did not recognize the incredible. [00:07:58] Speaker C: Right. [00:07:59] Speaker A: Wow. The incredible content provider is what we would call him today. That he was now, for me, when. When I was taken into the. Under the wing of this family, this little Jewish kid from Baltimore being taken in by this wasp family in the middle of Bronxville, New York, it was. [00:08:19] Speaker C: We weren't exactly your typical wasp. [00:08:22] Speaker A: No, no, no. But from my perspective, this is completely foreign. This might as well be Mars, and you might as well all be Martians. But it was fascinating. I was enthralled, intrigued with the world. But Greg, he was so generous, and his passion for filmmaking got underneath my skin. I loved movies. I loved old movies, but Greg infused. He was a filmmaker, and he was the first guy who said there's this movie called don't look now. And you should catch this. He made me sit down and watch don't look now. And that opened my eyes, because Greg, who said, now look at the color red and water and motif theme. And just the way that the filmmaker had used so many bits and pieces of the filmmaker's art to create this feeling of dread. [00:09:24] Speaker C: Oh, yeah. Yes. [00:09:25] Speaker A: Artistry. And I just watched it the other night. It was on Turner classic movies. And, you know, it still, for my money, has the best sex scene between mainstream actors of any movie in the entirety of world cinema, bar none. And watching it again, I'm even more convinced. It is so good. First of all, it's so intimate. You get a feeling that the rumors, the stories might indeed be true, that they really did consummate there on the set. But it's the clever intercutting. [00:10:01] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:10:02] Speaker A: They're having sex, and you feel like it's the sex for the first time since their little girl died. And they're getting. It's. He intercuts that with them getting ready to go out to dinner afterwards. And it just gives it a feeling of passion and yet the ordinariness of life. [00:10:20] Speaker C: Yeah, well, I mean, that's the one thing, you know, Greg. Greg and I went to the movies a lot, and we would go into the city and, you know, we remember the little Carnegie theater. We. [00:10:31] Speaker A: Oh, sure. [00:10:33] Speaker C: You know, it's like we would see these great movies, but he had such a passion for it. But the one thing I learned from Greg was, we're not going in if the film has started. We would not go in if the credits had started rolling or if the preview said, no, no, no, no, you go in. And also, you sat through all of the credits. [00:10:51] Speaker A: Oh, gosh, yes. [00:10:53] Speaker C: All the credits. So, yes, I read a lot of credits and became familiar with a lot of names. But he. I mean, again, living in Bronxville with that neighborhood. I mean, Brendan Gill was one of our neighbors, for heaven's sakes. [00:11:06] Speaker A: Oh, my God. I didn't even know that. [00:11:08] Speaker C: Oh, yeah. No, yeah. They lived just downhill there. But there was. There was always, you know, people there. People, you know, the most interesting people in the neighborhood. It was really. It's hard to describe it, you know, as a kid, you know, I'd come in from Ohio. Yeah, this is something different. But like you. It's like you, but it wasn't your typical. You know, we weren't sitting around eating white bread and mayonnaise all day. Come on. [00:11:35] Speaker A: No, no, no. Absolutely true. Now, some of the best of all the times. They had a sun porch, and again, this was a house on a hill, and the sun porch had a lovely view of the whole neighborhood. And we'd have dinner out on the sun porch. And the conversation. Greg was still drinking then, and the wine was always remarkable. [00:11:58] Speaker C: Almaden jug wine. [00:12:01] Speaker B: It's amazing, you know, because I'm a kid from Yonkers, which is the next town over, and I knew nothing about Sarah Lawrence or Sarah Lawrence College or the Lawrences until I started looking for colleges. I mean, I grew up in Yonkers my entire life and knew nothing about this. [00:12:17] Speaker A: It might as well have been a wall at the border. [00:12:20] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:12:20] Speaker C: Yeah, because. Okay, so the main building at Sarah Lawrence is Westlands, which was. Westlands was the name of the estate that the Lawrences had. And so when they built the houses on sunset that I was living in, that was built for Arthur Lawrence, and it was on the hilltop, and from. Let me see. It was from my bedroom windows, you could see Westlands on, like, a winter day when the trees weren't out. It was. That was the idea, was that you could see their houses from different points of view. So, yeah, that was it. [00:12:52] Speaker A: Yeah. So, anyway, so I wanted to have a brief conversation about Greg, because he was really. He deserves to be remembered more than he is really talented man. [00:13:04] Speaker C: Yeah. So it was. He was a great influence. [00:13:07] Speaker A: So, Randall and I have known each other forever, and eventually, Randall, while you were still in New York, before you came out here, you were involved in a very cool show called Tony and Tina's wedding. [00:13:20] Speaker C: Yeah, I was one of the collaborators, not one of the original creators, but one of the collaborators on Tony Tina's wedding, which, at the time, was the most successful off Broadway show outside of what, the fantastics or something. I mean, we ran because it was the touring companies and all of that, and that's what brought me to Los Angeles, was because I was. Not only had I done the production design for the show, because it had to be a hands on environment, so everything had to look real. So you went to Vinnie Black's Coliseum, which was supposed to be, like, an italian wedding establishment, and it had to look real, absolutely real. And so that was my job. But also, they had me in the show as an actor. I played one of the caterers named Vlasic, who was Russian. And because I was roaming the room and just monitoring when people would start to take things, we had a lot of people that, you know, just wanted to lift things and take them home as souvenirs and so, you know, and so Vlasic was kind of the hall monitor for walking around. So that was my character. And then what? We brought it out, but I also swung. I was the photographer for a while and did I do so. I don't care. Anyway, then we came to Los Angeles. The original company came to Los Angeles, and we opened the show at the Park Plaza hotel downtown there on MacArthur park, which was really interesting. And then, I guess, I don't know, I just didn't know what I was going to do. I just decided to go back to New York because I had a great apartment in Brooklyn, beautiful three bedroom floor through. And I'm like, I'm not giving this up, but, you know. [00:14:55] Speaker A: Where was your last apartment in Brooklyn? [00:14:57] Speaker C: It was on Fifth street between 7th and 8th, a block from the park. [00:15:03] Speaker A: For a space of time, Randall and Alison shook her, and I, we had. [00:15:08] Speaker C: The house in Cobble Hill. [00:15:09] Speaker A: Yeah, we had a. We shared a carriage house in Cobble Hill. And that was. That patch of time was so much fun. We had, there was a tar beach up on. Up on the roof, and we threw. The Brooklyn Bridge had its birthday party. Such a great party. Our Brooklyn Bridge tar Beach party. That was so much fun. [00:15:29] Speaker C: Remember the Tupperware party with the Jim Jones puns? [00:15:32] Speaker A: Oh, the Tupperware party was hilarious. [00:15:35] Speaker C: You talked a Tupperware lady to drive all the way down from White Plains to Brooklyn, Cobble Hill, Brooklyn, and bring all this Tupperware. And we made that Jim Jones punch. And people got hammered and they bought. She said, I've never sounds. I've never sold so much Tupperware in my life. [00:15:54] Speaker A: And we were not like. We were. She was from White Plains. Yeah, yeah. And we were a bunch of theatrical creatives, you know, in Copple Hill, Brooklyn. And she walked in the room and thought, I've wasted my time. No one here is buying the shit, and we're weirdos. And she got more hammer than anybody. [00:16:15] Speaker C: Yeah, no, absolutely. And remember, you got all the stacks, the boxes and boxes of Tupperware that arrived. [00:16:27] Speaker A: Oh, those were the days. [00:16:30] Speaker C: Who's going to pick this up? [00:16:31] Speaker A: I remember, like, oh, my God, I think I still have a couple of those pieces. Anyway, so eventually you got out to Los Angeles, and eventually, well, at the. [00:16:43] Speaker C: Time, our mutual friend Jerry Davis was dating Jay Galati, who was a costume designer. And Jay and I became fast friends. And she said, well, why are you going back to New York? Are you going back into the show? And I just assumed I would go back into Tony and Tina's wedding in New York. And she says, well, do you want to learn the business? Have you ever done costuming? And I said, well, in college I did. I did a little bit of that, and, you know, just be part of the theater program. And she says, well, you know, I'm doing a show. I'm doing a mini series for NBC called the great Los Angeles earthquake. So do you. Why don't you come on. Come on board, you know? And so at that time, it was non union, I believe. Even though we were shooting in LA, we were over. We were at Universal. We were all over the place. Anyway, the great loss at Universal. [00:17:31] Speaker A: And you were non union? [00:17:32] Speaker C: Yeah, we were shooting on the New York street there with rubble. And that's what happened was I started. I don't know how I got this job, but one of my first jobs was burying victims under fake bricks and then bloodying them up, like tearing their clothes and then blooding them up. And somebody, I remember saying, wow, you're really good at that blood. And it's like, okay, yeah, so I became the blood guy. And so that's what I did on the great Los Angeles earthquake. And I worked. I did a lot of victims. I dressed them and bloodied them up. And so that was my introduction to show business. And it was a good show. I mean, it was a good experience all the way around. [00:18:15] Speaker A: And I will point out briefly that our mutual friend Jerry Davis, another dear friend from back in the Vassar years, Jerry became an animation executive, and he is one of the executives responsible for the ice age series. Yeah, another very talented person, Jerry. [00:18:34] Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely. Anyway, yeah, so I'm doing the blood work, and it just kind of led. One job led to another. And I think I'm trying to remember when I did whatever happened to baby Jane. That was the remake with the Redgrave sisters of whatever happened to baby Jane. That was the costume supervisor on that and dressed the background. Jay and I did that. That show. And, I mean, it was. It was great. I mean, it was. It was a little intimidating at first to work with the Redgrave sisters. Right? But, you know, you talk about things that happen in movies, and communication is very, very important. Let me tell you something. But I was with. We shot in a big house in Hancock park, which was, I think, just like a block away from the original baby Jane house. And I'll never forget this as long as I live. And I was there with the meeting with the group, and we were going through the house, and we get to what's supposed to be Vanessa's bedroom. And Vanessa is playing the Joan Crawford part. Right. I guess nobody really talked to Vanessa about how she saw her character or how she, you know, envisioned her, her room, because she's really a prisoner in this bedroom. And I'll never forget it. Vanessa, she walked in and she said, oh, no, no, no, this is all wrong. [00:19:47] Speaker A: Wrong. [00:19:48] Speaker C: Oh, no, it's all wrong. And the set decorator I felt so bad for had purchased thousands of dollars of vintage wallpaper and had done the. It's a huge bedroom. Had done the entire bedroom with this wallpaper and this furniture, which was kind of a throwback to the original film, not to what her concept of her character was. And I'll never forget this. And she said, oh, no, I'm going to call David. And she went out into the hallway and she called David Hockney and got a painting. [00:20:20] Speaker A: She. [00:20:21] Speaker C: One of the swimming pool paintings in her bedroom on the wall. [00:20:25] Speaker A: And David. [00:20:26] Speaker C: I'm going to call David. And she called David Hockney and got a painting sent over. So anyway, they had to redo the whole room to match what her. She. Her whole concept of her character. Now, Lynn was a delight to work with. Absolute delight. I loved her. She was like one of the coolest people I've ever worked with. And I really enjoyed every minute with her. I. [00:20:50] Speaker B: Terrific painting. After the production wound up somehow in your bedroom or living room. [00:20:58] Speaker C: No, sorry. Did not. It was. It was huge. It was a big painting. It was not a little painting. It was a big painting. But no, it was a great, that was a great experience. And I think from there is when then I got involved with tales. [00:21:12] Speaker A: Yeah. Was it season four that you came aboard? [00:21:15] Speaker C: I think it might have been. I know that the. We did the episode. One of the episodes was with Henry Gibson. Would that have been Henry Gibson? [00:21:24] Speaker A: Hanks. Yes, season four. That was with Tom Hanks. [00:21:27] Speaker C: We were at that big house, like, what, in calabasas or something? We're shooting at way out somewhere. Yes, I think that was the first season, and I've talked about it in the past and what a great experience it was. It was truly fantastic. But again, this episode is called Dirty Laundry. I'm trying to think of what dirty laundry. I mean, there was an actor who was a lead in one of these shows who did leave me a treat when I went to clean up his area. [00:22:03] Speaker A: Laundry is a very intimate thing. [00:22:05] Speaker C: It's a very intimate thing. [00:22:07] Speaker A: It tells a story that sometimes you don't intend to tell to other people. [00:22:14] Speaker C: For the most part, the actors that we did hire on the show, because there were always three principles for every episode. Then it was background, more or less, right? And so they were all really great. But you could tell the actors who had been trained or had worked in theater, because when you went into their trailer, you went into their dressing room, everything was hung up. And the ones that just came from, you know, television or, you know, movie, their stuff was just laying all over the floor. There was no rhyme or reason to it. You had to pick up their sweaty old socks and shoes. And it's like, ugh. You know, but, you know, it's just part of the job. It is part of the job. But now I remember the thing that gil, I'm trying to remember what episode it would have been on. It was when I, because this is when I was supervising them, and you wanted to talk me. You wanted me to talk somebody into doing full nudity. And you said, oh, why don't you go in? Because you're a diplomat. You're the diplomat. I'm like, well, how did I get up on a mood and says, I'm a diplomat? No. And so, but I had to do that several times. [00:23:19] Speaker A: And you had to talk people into doing nudity for us. Yeah. [00:23:22] Speaker C: Can I say what one of the episodes, and I'm trying to remember what it. Which was. It was. Can I say who it was? Sure. I think this was Bill Malone's episode, and it was with Sherry Rose. [00:23:32] Speaker A: Oh, sherry, sure. [00:23:33] Speaker C: Peter Anuradi. [00:23:35] Speaker A: It's a great episode. Only fate. Only skin deep. [00:23:39] Speaker C: Yeah. Okay. So, and I think that, and I forget whether Gil came to me or somebody came to me. It may have been Bill saying, do you think that they would do this nude? And I said, well. And so I went into Sherry and I said, hey, Sherry, by the way, Peter said he will do this nude if you will do it nude. And she said, 0000 okay. So then I go to Peter and I say, hey, peter, sherry will do this nude if you do. And so I remember we had a robe standing by. Yes, I'll be right there with you with the robe and all of that. But, yeah, I had to do that several times. And then there was the the time with the poor kid. He was like a young guy. This may have been a teaser. It may have been a teaser for demon knight, where you had this guy was supposed to be screwing this woman on a bed. And I remember, well, anyway, and we set up the shot, and then they said, oh. Cause he had a pouch on, cover everything up, and it had a string that went around the waist and I forget who it was. Said, hey, is there any way we can lose that string? I mean, it's too distracting. We're trying to get a shot of his rear end here, and he's like, pounding on her, blah, blah, blah. So I had to take this kid back to the trailer. Now, this was just. This was not like this kid was not a seasoned professional, put it that way. But I take him back the trailer and I explain what they want. And I felt so bad for him because he was kind of hairy down there. And so I had to take the pouch and it was kind of like a thong type thing. Had to cut that off, just get the pouch. And then I had to put topstick all over his crotch. Now for. Anybody know what top stick is? It's toupee tape. And that's what you lock a toupee on your head with. And all this poor kid. I didn't even want to be near that trailer when he had to pull that stuff off because I'm sure it was not a fun experience on there to anchor it down in order to keep everything, you know, intact. Because he did not want to do it nude. No, there was no way he was going to do it full nude, full frontal. [00:25:38] Speaker B: I'm glad Alan and I didn't have to do anything in nudity. Otherwise we would have. It's probably still picking off that tape now. [00:25:47] Speaker C: We use top stick for everything, but, yeah, so it was. I mean, those were the only things. And I would say tails was such a great experience. And we've said this before, the cast, that was always there, the principles, they were there because they wanted to play. And we tried to make it a fun environment, and we tried to make it as easy as possible. Yeah, you're going to get bloody. You're going to get dirty, you're going to get whatever. You're going to have your heart ripped out, your intestines pulled out. Yeah. [00:26:13] Speaker A: But I remember when, when we did the. The fitting for Isabella Rossellini on you, murderer episode, and I just. I remember looking at you as. As she came up, because she wanted to do it as her mom, as Ingrid Bergman. She wanted to do it as her mom, Ingrid Bergman in Casablanca. She wanted to do it as Elsa, which was. I mean, to put that look together must have been so much fun. [00:26:37] Speaker C: Well, yeah, you know, Warden Neil was the costume designer on the episodes. And again, warden really concentrated on just the principles. And I did everybody else, but in that fitting, because she was, oh, she's a sweetheart. Isabella Mussolini was a lovely, lovely. And she came out of that, that little dressing room we had there, and like, ah, okay. Wow, this is kind of, because I know Warden really searched Heinlow for the hat. That's what Bergman wore in Casablanca. And again, Isabella really knew what she wanted, too. I mean, she was, you know, she had her two cent that she put in. But no, the actors, as far as demands. No, they. They really didn't. You know, it's like, we're just here to play dress me, put whatever you want on me. Oh, I remember. Oh, what's the comedian. Oh, gosh, what's his name? The comedian? I had to have so many white shirts standing by for him because he sweat like his body just poured water out. Richard Lewis. It was Richard Lewis. [00:27:39] Speaker A: Oh, Richard. Oh, whirlpool episode on. [00:27:42] Speaker C: Oh, my God. He was such a nice guy. And he was so. I was like, be embarrassed. I said, I've got. Don't be embarrassed. You know, but, yeah. Oh, he was a sweater. Oh, boy, did he sweat. And he was also kind of nervous about doing it. But he was very nice. I mean, everybody was nice. [00:27:58] Speaker A: He was a pleasure. He was a pleasure to work with. [00:28:00] Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely. Now, as opposed to after I did do. And I don't know if I'm going to say what show it was, but I did a mini series that was directed by our friend Mick Garris, and we had an actress on that show, which was. Well, it was an experience, let's just put it that way. And I'll never forget, the dry cleaners called me and said, hey, randall, I don't know what's going on, but we cannot get the stench out of her sweaters. It's so bad. It's so pungent. What is happening? And I'm like, oh, boy. I don't know what to tell you, because she wore sweaters for pretty much the entire picture, right? And so I called my good friend Wendy, who had worked with her on a previous film, and I said, oh, my God, can you help me out here? Did you have this problem? Oh, yes. Oh, here's what you do. You go to the liquor store, you buy the cheapest bottle of vodka you can find, put it in a spray bottle and spray it down, which is what we did. And I mean, what does that tell you about vodka? [00:29:05] Speaker A: This is incredible. [00:29:07] Speaker C: It took the smell out, and it was. Yeah. [00:29:10] Speaker A: You know, in the way the dads from the crypt, they review crypt episodes and give parenting advice. Now we give a home, a wardrobe. [00:29:19] Speaker C: Deepest bottle of vodka spray bottle. That's all you have to do. [00:29:24] Speaker B: Homeopathic ways to avoid disaster. [00:29:27] Speaker A: Wow. Never mind. Club soda. Vodka. [00:29:30] Speaker C: Yeah, but, you know, that's the thing. Just when I got to thinking about what I was going to say or whatever talk about. And again, tails, we really had great experience with the actors, but on the other projects that I worked on, there was always one person. There was always one person. [00:29:45] Speaker A: Well, now, no, no. Before we get there, did you do perversions? [00:29:49] Speaker C: No, no. I did weird tales. [00:29:52] Speaker A: Okay, so. All right, so you did weird world. [00:29:58] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. Weird world or weird tales? [00:30:00] Speaker A: Yeah, weird world. That's what you meant. Okay, so you did that. But. And then afterwards. And then you were with the group when they went to Las Vegas and did the strip. [00:30:11] Speaker C: Oh, there was a tv show called the Strip that some guy named Gil Adler was on and fa brought me in. [00:30:19] Speaker A: Who was one of your lead actresses on that show? [00:30:23] Speaker C: Stacey Dash. Stacy Dash. Stacy Dash. See, you've forgotten her already. Don't you remember what? Oh, my gosh. I've never worked with an actress who walked into the trailer and hated everything immediately and just refused to wear anything. I've never had an actress piss off. Wardrobe, makeup, hair set decorator, prop master. You know, it was like. It was such a bad attitude. Do you remember that, Gil? [00:30:55] Speaker B: I actually don't. I don't remember her. [00:30:57] Speaker C: Oh, funny. [00:30:58] Speaker A: I was sure. Oh, my God. Well, if this is. She sounded like another Dennis Miller. [00:31:03] Speaker C: Yeah. Very close. Very, very, very close. Actually, maybe a little nastier. Really. And truthfully, she really was. Had quite the attitude. And we were all like, wait a minute. We've all been getting along and having a good time here. And then you're introduced as one of the lead characters, and you refuse to wear the stuff that was bought for you. And we're not on a. It wasn't a high budget tv show at all. Not at all. And so we were trying to make do, and it's like, you know, little things like shoes. I would. I won't wear those shoes. No, I'm nothing. Stacey, nobody's going to see your feet. It's television. They're going to shoot you from here up. You know, it's like, no, don't worry about. Oh, no, she wouldn't do. Oh, it was awful. And that's when. I believe that's when Warden quit. Warden quit. And then he said he wasn't going to put up with that kind of stuff. And then we brought Julie Carnahan in to continue on the show, which Julie and I then because we'd worked together before and got along great and. But yes, and mercifully, remember, the show got canceled after, what, nine episodes? Yeah, that was, that was an experience. I had never really run into anybody that difficult. [00:32:05] Speaker B: The only person I remember from that show is the God, what's his name? He's no longer with us. Italian. [00:32:12] Speaker C: Joe Vittorelli. [00:32:13] Speaker B: Yeah, Joe. [00:32:14] Speaker C: Joe Vittorelli. Yeah. [00:32:16] Speaker B: Joe was great. [00:32:17] Speaker C: Oh, he was a hoot, that guy. I mean, he was what you see is what is what you got. That's him. You know, he was. He was. And he actually was very nice to work with. He, you know, it's like, you know, okay, Joe, just do your thing. And also, do you remember we had Alexis Arquette on the show? [00:32:34] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:32:35] Speaker C: Had Alexis Arquette on the show. And that was the first time, I think, a trans person was in a lead part, right? [00:32:43] Speaker B: Yeah, I think so. [00:32:45] Speaker C: Really? [00:32:45] Speaker B: Just a real quick story about Joe is one day he comes into my office, and he sits down and goes, so we have to talk. And I'm like, oh, God, what happened? He goes, so I know you made this deal, and we're all staying at Caesars. I don't want to stay in Caesars. I don't stay in Caesars. I stay down the block at I forgot what it's called. Circus circus or something like that, which was totally a mob place from, you know, in the fifties and sixties. So I go, but Joe, this. It's brand new. This is a brand new facility. And we made. And he comes over to my, to the desk. He gets up and comes over to the desk, leans over, and he goes, Gil, I'm not sure you understand what I'm saying to you. My friends. My friends are over there. And in fact, my friends want you and your wife to come over for a nice steak dinner, but I need to stay there. So you need to call them and just make arrangements for me to stay there. Do you understand what I'm saying to you? And all of a sudden, the light bulb went off. And I went, whoa. Oh, okay. Yeah. [00:33:51] Speaker A: Is there a waste management company you'd like us to use too? [00:33:54] Speaker B: So I make the deal, right? Joe moves into the other place, calls me up one day, and he goes, so the guys want to have you over and your wife for dinner. And I go, well, you know, I'm really busy. We're working along. He goes, no, no, no. We're doing this on the weekend, whenever you can make it. So I go, oh, okay. So my wife over there for dinner, and it was like out of a. It was like out of the casino, the movie. It's a round table. It's. It's all. It's all wood, old, wooden. And Jeannie and I are sitting at the table with Joe, like a checkered tablecloth, at least. Oh, yeah. And with four or five guys. And I'm sitting there, and as I'm looking around the table, I'm thinking, I'm in a movie about the mafia. One looks more like a mafia killer than the other one. I'm thinking, am I going to make it out of here with just a steak, or is the steak knife going to be in me? And it was so much. We had such a great time with them, and then we left, and they were always inviting us over, and I was always saying, no, no, I can't do it. But we had such a great time. We'll have to do it again. But Joe. Joe turned out to be the best. [00:34:57] Speaker C: Oh, yeah. No, he was great. But I think it was the stardust, because I do remember him. [00:35:02] Speaker B: Stardust. Yes, that's what it was. [00:35:05] Speaker C: But I think it was the stardust. [00:35:07] Speaker B: It definitely was a stardust. As you said, it just came in. I think of walking into that lobby and seeing these guys sort of in a circular, you know, all lined up in a circle, sort of to say hello in a semicircle as Jeanne and I came in with Joe. And as I. I just kept thinking to myself, I'm either in a movie or Joe has arranged for me to die tonight, or maybe both. [00:35:35] Speaker A: That's hilarious. [00:35:36] Speaker C: Yeah, no, he was. He was great. He was a real character. He was great. [00:35:39] Speaker A: So these days, Randall, you work for Paramount. You have really your dream job. [00:35:48] Speaker C: Yeah, well, I've been at Paramount now 20 years I've been at Paramount. [00:35:54] Speaker A: And just explain to the folks what you do over at Paramount. [00:35:58] Speaker C: Well, originally I was brought in to the costume department as a day check type person, and then that segued into, oh, no, we want you full time. And then they let some of the people go that I was working with, said, no, we want you to take over the rental floor. This all happened within about a year. And so I was running the rental. [00:36:17] Speaker A: Floor, and then there was 20 years ago. So we're talking around the turn of the millennium. [00:36:23] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah, this was. I think I started there in 2002. Yeah, it was. 2002 is when I started. And so, you know, it just segwayed. And as I would be restocking costumes or writing things up, you know, for orders for people, and I would find these historical costumes that some of them had names and some of them, I just recognized what they were. And I'm like, oh, my God, no, I'm not renting this. I'm not renting it. And so I started hiding stuff. [00:36:50] Speaker A: What was the first one you recognized? You went, oh, my God. Oh, God, I know what this is. [00:36:55] Speaker C: It was Jane Russell from son of paleface, and it was a red and black striped performance costume that she wore when she sang the wingding song, the wingding number. [00:37:09] Speaker A: But you recognized it. You saw it, but it wasn't marked inside. You went, I know what that is. [00:37:14] Speaker C: It's Jane Russell. Right? It's Jane Russell. And which, by the way, has been restored and has gone to museums around the country. But, yeah, so that was one of the first. And then it was a little, just pieces. I'd see these names like Barbara Stanwyck and Veronica Lake and like, oh, my gosh, Dorothy Lamour. And like, oh my gosh. So I just started hiding them. I started bagging them up and putting notes on them that said, do not rent damaged. Like, then we had the jewelry collection and the jewelry collection was kept separate. And I started realizing, oh, my gosh. Well, this is pretty good stuff. And I guess I think it was about 2006, they decided to close the department and they were going to sell everything off. And I said, oh, no. And my boss at the time, who was great, and he said, well, I know what you've been doing, so why don't you go to all the other studios and see what their archives are like and let's talk. So I went to the studios and actually it was Leith Adams at Warner Brothers who really kind of took me under his wing and taught me how he did things. And so that's. I modeled how I wanted to set up Paramount's costume and prop archive based on what Leith taught me. So anyway, what can I say? It's just, it's, it's now 20 years. We have about 39,000 individual contemporary pieces that go back to 1987. And then I have about 3500 vintage pieces that go back to 1914 jewelry. There's 12,500 pieces of jewelry. And we've just discovered Jackie Rohrer, who works with me. She does a lot of our jewelry restoration. She just discovered an anime Wong necklace and bracelethe set from a 1938 film that we did. So, yeah, and then in 2024, I'm. [00:39:04] Speaker A: Doing where, where, when you see, just found where, where do these things get just. [00:39:09] Speaker C: Well, going back to the jewelry, the jewelry was in a separate room, contemporary jewelry was in one room and the, like, historical and fantasy stuff was in another. And they sold off the contemporary jewelry before I had a big say in it, right. But the other jewelry, I lied and I said, oh, this stuff probably doesn't have much value and it's broken. I said, you know, we'll find the right buyer for it. And I knew, damn straight. It's the Ten Commandments. It's Samson and Lila twenties. And it's like, you know, I'm no fool. And so that's the stuff that has been restored, those pieces. We had a budget to do restoration on all this, and they look great. I mean, they were, you know, the DeMille stuff was, it's, it's, it's gold plated. It's real gold plated. It's not. They insisted on spending the money for gold plating. And, I mean, we have beautiful crowns, necklaces, you know, and then, of course. [00:40:02] Speaker B: Are they ever on display any place? [00:40:04] Speaker C: Well, we have it. We have a jewelry display room at Paramount for the archive tour. If you're on the vip tour, you can see it there. And then we've traveled around the country with some of the exhibitions because basically now that's what I'm doing. Or museum, live museum exhibitions. So I'll be doing a big Edith head exhibit in 24 in Oklahoma City. And then, like right now, I just got back from Ohio. I did very Brady holiday, which were pieces from the Brady Bunch films, the first and the second film. Plus I had three pieces from the original tv series. So that's a very Brady holiday. So, yeah, that's, it's, it's. And it's a great calling card for Paramount, you know, and for the archives that, you know, you know, people will see this stuff and say, hey, I want to watch that movie. I'm going to get it on dvd or, you know, I'm streaming whatever. So, yeah, I mean, it's, it's, it's, it's like we're like goodwill ambassadors put it that way. [00:40:56] Speaker B: Have you ever thought about writing an accompanying book about the history of some of these items? [00:41:01] Speaker C: Oh, yeah. People have asked me about that and. [00:41:05] Speaker B: What I, I would read that. I would love to read that. [00:41:08] Speaker C: Yeah. I mean, what was more interesting to me is when I started discovering this stuff, Washington, what poor condition so much of this stuff was in, and I photographed a lot of the stuff in its deteriorating state, which was interesting, you know, to look at. And now the bulk of that stuff has been restored and it can be displayed. And we have a person who does all of our restoration work for us. And she's really great and understands the nature of this fabric and what it takes, because we don't allow any of these pieces to be worn again. But they can go on a dress form or a mannequin. You know that. Yeah. So. [00:41:42] Speaker B: But it's another whole element to have some text to how and what happened to this thing, a garment or jewelry in its heyday and how it got to here. That, to me, would be, you know, even more interesting than just looking at it going, oh, somebody so and so worth it. I think that would be really interesting. [00:42:01] Speaker C: Well, you know, back in the day, this stuff was considered really. It was used for one film and then it would go into a stock, open stock. They reuse it, re cut it. You know, there was no real respect for it. And it wasn't until after that MGM auction in 1970 that then suddenly this stuff had value. And that's when the studio started unloading a lot. Also storage. You know, it was very costly to store and storage was at a premium. And that was the big transition back from 69 to 72, is how films were made and the type of films that were made of. People didn't need an Edith head to create costumes from scratch. You went to Nordstrom's, you went to Macy's, you went to Saks, you know, you bought stuff. [00:42:43] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:42:44] Speaker C: It was a more realistic look that filmmakers were after. They weren't after anything terribly exotic unless it was a period film. But a lot of our period dresses were recut and men's suits were just recut and used on people over and over again. [00:42:59] Speaker B: Yeah. But even more interesting about. Well, that history of when it wasn't that way, when it was really just taken and basically thrown back into the. Into the closet to be reused someplace and realizing later on, oh, my God, those are the shoes that so and so wore. Those are the slippers. Ruby slippers. Yeah. That seems to me like a really interesting. [00:43:20] Speaker C: It is fascinating. It really is. It's. It's a fascinating piece of art history and the ephemera of Hollywood. [00:43:28] Speaker A: Well, you know, the art form, movie making is a great universal story form, a storytelling form. It is as, hey, it's the most potent thing in the world, the moving image. [00:43:45] Speaker B: I remember when I first came out to LA in the early seventies, MGM was auctioning off that third lot, and I got onto that lot before they sold it because that was where the house was from. Gone with the wind and Artie boy house was there and you were just. Nobody cared. There was no security. You just walked around there, and now today it's all condos. Everything is gone and it's all condos. [00:44:16] Speaker C: And you can't. [00:44:18] Speaker A: So how did Joni Mitchell put it? You paved paradise and put up a parking lot. [00:44:24] Speaker C: But, you know, that's what the studio archives, not just me, but the other archives are working really hard to preserve this stuff and accessible and for museum loans. And I also work with marketing and publicity when they need things. So there is a different respect for these assets now than there was even 25 years ago. They were just selling things out the back door just to pay the rent on the space. [00:44:53] Speaker B: So has there been any conversation about the new museum on Fairfax? [00:44:59] Speaker C: I'm working with them, actually. Tomorrow I go over to check out the godfather display that helped coordinate and that we have a grand opening on Wednesday night. Oh, cool. Opening for the Godfather. So it's a celebration of the Godfather, but we were able to secure set pieces. Well, Don Corleone's office from the offer, which was the miniseries, and they did a beautiful job of reproducing the Don Corleone office, so they took it apart and the back half of that with the desk, the bookshelves, the fireplace, that is all going to be the centerpiece at the academy museum. And, yeah, I have other costumes there, too. And we're also talking about stuff for 23, so, yeah, I'm working with them pretty closely. [00:45:43] Speaker B: How long will that exhibit be on? [00:45:45] Speaker C: 17 months. That's going to be a long exhibit. [00:45:47] Speaker A: At the motion picture museum. [00:45:49] Speaker C: Yeah, at the academy museum. [00:45:51] Speaker A: Now, while we're. This would be a perfect place to finish up. Now. You haven't been there yet, Gil? [00:45:57] Speaker B: No, I haven't. [00:45:58] Speaker A: Okay. When you come to Los Angeles anyway, when you get back to LA next time, you got to hit that museum, man. The academy museum is fantastic. [00:46:12] Speaker B: I'm sure it is. I'm sure it is. [00:46:13] Speaker A: It is awesome. And it is, you know, walking around with being part of this industry, you know, having. Having been a storyteller within it, a feeling of such pride to be part of this remarkable thing. And you look at the stories. Give me the stories that this industry tells in the way that it tells it. Wow. Wow. [00:46:37] Speaker B: Yeah. In fact. In fact, if I may be so bold, I think you should take one of those smelly sweaters and put it up in the museum. [00:46:46] Speaker A: You know, that's. [00:46:47] Speaker C: That's. [00:46:47] Speaker A: That's. That's. Yes. [00:46:49] Speaker C: There. [00:46:49] Speaker A: The secrets. Hey, there's a whole exhibit that the museum is going to have to think about called dirty laundry. [00:46:56] Speaker C: Dirty laundry. Yeah. [00:46:59] Speaker B: And if you can guess, if you can guess who wore it, perhaps you can keep it. [00:47:09] Speaker A: Thank you so much for joining us today, Randall. [00:47:12] Speaker C: You are so welcome. Whenever I get to talk about tales and just my experience, I love doing that because it was, like I said over and over again, it was a great experience. And it's too bad it ended too soon, really. We all had a terrific time and appreciated each other and respected each other. But, yeah, I still know how to, you know, rip a heart out, take a head off, stab somebody in the back a couple of times. [00:47:40] Speaker A: Knowing how to stab people in the back is necessary in this business. [00:47:43] Speaker C: Oh, yeah. Welcome to Hollywood. [00:47:45] Speaker B: I just remember saying to the mechanical effects guys, more blood. I need no, no more blood. I remember a conversation once and I said, wait a minute, this blood doesn't look red. This is not blood. This looks like fake. They got to have real blood. You know? Why is it looking so fake? [00:48:04] Speaker C: I do remember that, though, with you doing it. But I remember the Hudson sprayers, and they were pumping the blood, right. [00:48:13] Speaker A: Thank you for joining us, everyone. Don't get us. We'll go down a whole other rabbit hole of. [00:48:19] Speaker B: And thanks for saying such nice things about tails, because it never, never gets old for either of us. We just have a really soft spot for, in our careers for tails and what it did for us and the people we met and worked with. So thanks so much. [00:48:32] Speaker A: We hate. This is, this is, this is the fan club here. [00:48:36] Speaker C: There you go. [00:48:37] Speaker A: Thank you for joining us, everyone. We will see you next time. The how not to make a movie podcast is executive produced by me, Alan Katz, by Gil Adler, and by Jason Stanley sign. Our artwork was done by the amazing Jody Webster and Jason. Jody, along with Mando, are all the hosts of the fun and informative dads from the Crip podcast. Follow them for what my old pal the Crypt keeper would have called terrific crypt content.