Episode 6: The Cutting Room Floor

[00:00:00] Speaker A: This podcast is a collaboration between costart and Touchstone Productions and the Dads from the Crypt podcast. Hi, I'm Alan Katz, and this is the how not to make a movie podcast, the making of Bordello of Blood, episode six. It came from the cutting room floor. If you've listened to the previous five episodes of this podcast podcast, you've heard what a joy it was making tales from the crypt and how much the tales creative team loved working together. You've heard how antithetical the whole process of making Bordello of Blood was to the process of making tails. You heard stories about Erica and Dennis and Angie and about Sly and about Joel. Where Dennis is concerned, my original intent was to be as even handed as possible. I thought my issues with him were my issues, and I dealt with him in my head. I didn't expect that so many of us, Gill especially, still resented the Dennis Miller experience with such passion. Almost 30 years later, I let the group speak for itself. Doing this podcast was more cathartic for more of us than I anticipated. Alas, telling a story always demands making hard choices. What to keep, what to cut. To tell you the story of Bordello, of Blood's tortured making, I had to leave some really great stories on the cutting room floor. That is, until this episode. Ain't podcasting grand? In this episode, I'm going to share with you some of the interviews and stories that didn't make that final cut. It kills me that I couldn't use as much from our casting director, Victoria Burroughs, as I wanted to. It was so much fun talking to Victoria again. [00:01:54] Speaker B: I remember sitting in a tv movie producer's office and getting a call from Gil. I was an assistant to Barbara Clayman when we did up the Pentagon, which you spoke about. [00:02:08] Speaker C: Okay, okay, okay. [00:02:10] Speaker B: In the podcast, you're sure? [00:02:12] Speaker C: Okay. [00:02:12] Speaker B: And I was her assistant, and he calls me out of the blue, and he says, I have this half hour, you know, piece that I want you to take a look at and tell me what you think. So he sends it over, and all it says is yellow on it, doesn't tell me anything. Says, read it and tell me what you think. And I remember reading it, and it had such a, like, aha, you know, payoff ending. And I called him, and I said, well, I love it because it's all Menda, and I'd love to do this. And he goes, okay, well, now I'm going to tell you that you will take a meeting with Robert Zemeckis. And I was like, oh, okay. So I put together some ideas, and I went and met Bob, and we had a lovely conversation over at Universal. And next thing I know, Gil's telling me, hey, you got it. Let's do it. It's a half hour. You know, Bob's going to direct, as you know, and Joel Silver and blah, blah, blah, tales from the crypt. That was a life changer, game changer that Gil gave me. I couldn't understand why he remembered me after all these years of being an assistant on this movie up the Pentagon, which was also, you know, a very tough project to work on. [00:03:43] Speaker A: Here's Victoria talking tales. [00:03:45] Speaker B: It was just the way you guys were talking about it. It was the most fun I've had in doing episodic. It was so special to be able to go out on the set and see the actors work, and you'd be building one set and we'd be filming another, and it was magical on that side. But the difficulty was all the hurdles we had to accomplish in getting it done. And, you know, when you have a Bob Zemeckis or a donner, you get whoever you want for scale plus ten, you know, which. [00:04:21] Speaker C: That's an important thing to point out in about tales from the crypt. HBO, you know. Hey, it's HBO, but, you know, they. They don't pay for no. [00:04:31] Speaker B: And so are. It was scale plus ten. That is it. Take it or leave it. And I'm calling them. Hi, would Arnold Schwarzenegger like to do this? Yeah. [00:04:43] Speaker C: How many millieverts will you be paying, Arnold? [00:04:45] Speaker D: Scale plus. [00:04:47] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, about $1,500 for five days, what we did over and over and over again. And it's amazing who we got tells. [00:04:59] Speaker C: Never had a home base. [00:05:01] Speaker A: We moved from warehouse to warehouse every season. Some were in good neighborhoods, some not so good. [00:05:08] Speaker B: I just loved being out there in Chatsworth with you guys. We weren't. We next to, like, a, you know, a porno. A porno studio next door would walk in there thinking they were coming to us. Oh, my gosh. [00:05:24] Speaker C: I got a shopping. You people running here? [00:05:26] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. I thought it was tales from the crypt, not tales from the strip. [00:05:33] Speaker A: Like the podcast says, the feature films gnawed away much of what made doing tales from the crypt so special. [00:05:39] Speaker C: Ernest had someone else in mind, right? Oh, that's right. Ernest had someone else. That Ernest Dickerson had his own person in mind. Okay, so you separate my feelings. Yeah. Okay, well, let's. Let's talk about that, because, you know, Ernest also had his own set designer in mind, and we didn't use Greg Melton. [00:05:57] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:05:58] Speaker C: And so this was all right. So, in retrospect, as I look back at it, all right, suddenly the feature films pop up, and some of the band are getting the call, and some of the band aren't getting the call. [00:06:14] Speaker B: Right? [00:06:15] Speaker C: This cannot be good for the band. [00:06:18] Speaker B: Well, in retrospect, to me, you know, in looking back on a casting career, you know, it's very fair that a director brings in somebody he's comfortable with at the time. You know, it's like the band is together. We're all, you know, running so smoothly. It's, like, just amazing. And then you're told, oh, he's bringing in somebody else. And all of a sudden you feel like, oh, I'm not worthy. You know, you go through that insecurity part, and I know we all go through it, and it was just one of those moments, you know? [00:06:50] Speaker A: So another voice I wish you'd heard more of is Ed Tapias. When I say Ed was so much more than just Gil's assistant, I mean, Ed always knew where all the bodies were buried, usually because Ed helped bury them. [00:07:05] Speaker E: I went. I was temping at MGM, of all places, and Victoria Burroughs, wonderful casting director, called me long in the days before cell phones and texting and said, hey, the guys from tales from the crypt are looking for an assistant. Do you want to join them? And I got. I remember thinking, God damn, I love that show. That would be awesome. So I remember I gave my. My resume to Victoria, and she forwarded it to these two people named Gil Adler and Alan Katz. And I was especially excited because it was associated with Walter Hill and Richard Donner and Bob Zemeckis and David Geiler. These are filmmakers that I absolutely loved. So the idea that I would get to work with and around didn't love Joel. [00:07:56] Speaker C: You didn't love Joel? Actually, you mentioned Guyler, but not Joel. [00:08:03] Speaker E: No, but I actually, I got to tell you a funny, several funny Joel stories later. But Joel ended up being very, very good to me. And so, yes, he was part of that, because I loved those movies at the time. And this is before the Matrix and a lot of the stuff he did later. I mean, this is still lethal weapon. And I, you know, those. Those crazy action movies. But what's funny is that when I met with Gil Adler and Alan Katz, they hired me, which was awesome. But what I found out, and what you may not know, Greg, is they only had three weeks money for me in the budget. That's all they had. And they didn't tell me. They literally had me for three weeks, but they decided through somehow to keep me on more than the three weeks until they sold something. And fortunately, about six weeks later, they sold a bunch of stuff. So my three week job ended up being a five year job because they kept selling stuff. [00:08:55] Speaker A: Production designer Greg Melton talking crypt thinking. [00:08:59] Speaker D: Back on it, I'm like, how did we pull it off, you know, knowing what I know today? [00:09:04] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:09:05] Speaker D: It's just like we were down to sometimes, like, four day turnarounds between episodes. But I believe, you know, I'm trying to remember when I first heard that it was in the offing. Tales from the crypt. It might have been just before we went down to San Diego to do haunted lives. [00:09:25] Speaker C: Now, you had a relationship with Gil. Did you work on Freddy's nightmares? [00:09:29] Speaker D: Yeah, yeah, I did. The second season, that's where I met Gil. And you was on the second season of Freddy's nightmares. [00:09:35] Speaker C: Right. I know from the writing perspective, that show was wacky, the whole concert, because it was all right. The first season, it was hours that had to be. You could break them, break them up into two half hour shows for syndication. So it had to make sense as a half hour and as an hour. And then the second season, they had to make sense as two hour movies, as 2 hours. That made sense as independent hours and as four half hours. It made sense as independent four, four. [00:10:06] Speaker D: Wow. [00:10:07] Speaker C: It was now, from the. I know from creating the story, it was nuts. Was designing that show crazy? [00:10:19] Speaker D: Well, yeah. I mean, that was sort of the template that we took into doing tales from the crypt. The only way to pull it off was to run those night crews for building because we didn't have time to build set. [00:10:31] Speaker C: We were. Right. That's right. [00:10:33] Speaker D: We didn't have a mill. So we. We devised that whole night work scheme. [00:10:39] Speaker C: Right, right. [00:10:40] Speaker D: We would, you know, finish and come in and tear out and put in another set, and then we. We use that same sort of process. [00:10:47] Speaker C: Sure. [00:10:48] Speaker D: Tales from the crypt. [00:10:49] Speaker C: So the answer to the question is yes. The craziness that we were forced to do on Freddy's helped out. [00:10:59] Speaker D: It did. I mean, the only thing on crypt is we had a little. We had two stages. [00:11:03] Speaker A: Hey, Greg, tell the story how you got Dales. [00:11:06] Speaker D: We were down in San Diego doing that. Haunted lives. [00:11:09] Speaker C: Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. [00:11:10] Speaker D: And I remember Gil telling me, the way I came into it was, we're going to do this thing. You know, I want you to do it, but you got to, you got to, you got to get past the executive producers. You know? So I said, okay, what do I got to do? And he goes, all right. He said he'd tell me. And I finally got a call, and he goes, okay, you got to run over to Sony to stage 15 and meet Richard Donner at 04:00 p.m. today. And I went, okay. So, you know, I went. They had a drive on. I went there. I, like, there was nobody to meet me. There was nothing. I literally opened the stage door, walked onto the set, and he was doing radio here. He was filming radio flyer, and it was, you know, stage 15. That's the biggest stage at MGM. It's where they did Munchkin Village. There's just sets everywhere, and I'm just. I'm literally going through sets. I, like here on the other side, I think they're filming over there. And I remember I went over there, and he's filming, and I'm like, I tapped somebody. I said, I have to talk to the. I was trying to find out who to talk to. Finally found a second ad, and finally I met Richard Donner. He had a break, and we went off and went to a trailer, and basically he goes, so Adler wants you. I go, yeah, I'm coming. I worked with Gil last year. I was just. I'm just a snot nosed, 30 year old, you know, kid at the time. And I brought my little, you know, book to show him, and he. He didn't even. He really didn't even look at the book. He goes, well, it's Gil. Watch it. You look like you'll be great. And then the ad goes, we need you back on the set. That was it. [00:12:45] Speaker C: You look like you'll be great. You look like. [00:12:52] Speaker F: The part. [00:12:53] Speaker D: Did I just get the job? [00:12:55] Speaker C: You know, you look like you'll be great. You look like you'll be a great production. [00:13:01] Speaker D: Yeah. I never even got to show the book. I was just like, okay. He was too busy. [00:13:06] Speaker C: That's hilarious. [00:13:07] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:13:09] Speaker C: But, hey, that was kind of how the crypt world worked, man. It was. [00:13:13] Speaker D: That's how I got in. [00:13:14] Speaker C: So the challenge in crypt world was, of course, reinventing the wheel every five days. [00:13:23] Speaker D: Yeah, yeah. [00:13:24] Speaker C: And the wheel could be anything. [00:13:27] Speaker E: Yeah. And I've told people over the years that anybody that wants in the best kind of training for any kind of film production is to work on an anthology show. [00:13:36] Speaker D: Absolutely, yeah. [00:13:37] Speaker E: Because once you do an anthology show, a regular television show becomes easy, and a feature becomes boring. [00:13:44] Speaker D: Yeah, yeah. Well, I tell you, after. After doing them for, what is that, four or five years? I've never done one again because they don't do a lot of them. [00:13:54] Speaker E: No. [00:13:55] Speaker D: Anymore, you know, it's too expensive. I don't know. [00:13:58] Speaker E: And it's hard to do well, we. [00:13:59] Speaker D: Were always looking for some angle to have fun with. I mean, some of the, like the one we did with Malcolm McDowell, I always remember really enjoying the reluctant vampire. Yes, yes. There's all kinds of fun sets in that. [00:14:14] Speaker C: Getting to work with some really amazing directors along the way, too. [00:14:18] Speaker D: Well, yeah, I mean, you know, Walter Hill was, like, top of my list, you know, growing up as one of my all time favorites. [00:14:25] Speaker E: Yeah, me too. And also, just to see him work, I mean, we had directors that would come in and had their processes, and they were all different. Walter would come in the first day of prep, and he's like, okay, on day one, the first scene, we're gonna do this, then we're gonna move over here, then I'm gonna turn around and cover it there. He would give you the whole day, and you'd be out in ten and a half hours, because everybody knew exactly what they were supposed to do. [00:14:49] Speaker D: Yeah, well, that I remember the first time I went on a scout with him on that first episode that he did that I was involved in, I think deadline. I remember we went down scouting around fifth and Broadway, main, that area. [00:15:02] Speaker C: Dive bars, looking for dive bars. [00:15:05] Speaker D: He knew every dive bar. He knew everything. It's like, we're going to shoot at the King edward. We're going to go to the alley behind. It was all laid out. And then I realized, I go, these are all the locations from 48 hours. He knew them all. You know, he's like, gonna do this. We're gonna jump across street and do the pawn shop here. We can go. And I'm like, my God, this guy's, like, brilliant. [00:15:29] Speaker C: Best of walter hill. [00:15:31] Speaker D: Yeah, yeah. But, yeah, he was very, very, well, just a wonderful man, and very, very easy. Knew what to do. Got his shots. [00:15:42] Speaker C: And working with him, that was, you know, because like I said, you, as you said you, this was someone that you admired when you walked in the door. Now suddenly, here you are, not just meeting him, but you're working. You are now. [00:15:57] Speaker D: Yeah, yeah. Well, believe me, I was just all over, you know, just, you know, just trying to absorb everything that I could from them. And also just, you know, it's hard when you meet your idols, you know, because it can be. It can go one or two ways, and it has. [00:16:13] Speaker E: It has. For me, on tails, there was a couple of idols I met that I. [00:16:16] Speaker D: Was like, ooh, yeah, right. Yeah. [00:16:18] Speaker C: Who was an idol, Ed? [00:16:20] Speaker E: Well, Walter was one. Dick Donner was another one. I was a huge fan of Russell McAhey before we met through the music videos. [00:16:28] Speaker C: Lovely guy. [00:16:29] Speaker E: You know, I mean, russell. Russell was somebody who, a, he's very cool, and b, he's all over the place creatively. I mean, he was just the ideas he would toss out. [00:16:38] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:16:38] Speaker E: You know, and it took me a while to realize that he just has no filter when he's pitching stuff. And that's why some of so many of his music videos were so amazing, because he would just see stuff that other people didn't see. [00:16:49] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:16:49] Speaker E: And a lot of stuff he said to me didn't make sense, and I'd see it filmed. I remember there was one episode, the one with Katherine O'Hara. [00:16:56] Speaker C: Oh, sure, sure. You remember that 99 point something percent? [00:16:59] Speaker E: Exactly. I don't know if. I don't know if you'll remember this, Alan, but we had, like an 08:00 call that morning. And, like, 10:00 a.m. we still hadn't gotten a first shot. And Gil said, you know, check with Lee webb. Find out what's going on. We still don't have a shot. So I went down, you know, we were in Lassen at the Chatsworth stages, and I walked on the set and I asked Lee, what's going on? He goes, yeah, we're still setting up. And I'm like, okay, but it's been 2 hours. We still have shot. It's okay. We're fine. We're fine. Hour and a half later, Gil comes to me and goes, what the hell is going on? We still don't have a shot. Go out there, find out why we're not shooting. So I go out there, and Lee goes, we're still setting up, Ed. We're still setting up. Goes, tell Gil we're okay. And it was like we had like six pages we were trying to do before lunch because we had something like three pages after lunch. It was like an eight and a half page day. And then I get back and I hear on the walkie, literally 20 minutes later, scenes complete. We're done. We're like, wait, what? Wait, how did we set up for four and a half hours? And if you remember, it was a five minute one. One shot with the crane that started on their feet, went up to the judge, had her walking in through the room. I mean, it was brilliant, and it was amazing. And it was like he didn't tell anybody. [00:18:11] Speaker C: Great visual stylist. [00:18:13] Speaker E: Yeah, but he's another one who I just. When I met him, I was like. It went, he was. He was everything that I expected. [00:18:19] Speaker D: The other big idol that I had was John Frankenheimer. And, you know, I really wanted to do a good job for him. We built an entire library in six days for him. On that episode. [00:18:34] Speaker C: Very particular. Was. [00:18:35] Speaker D: Was John a very tough guy? I mean, he would. He would make Lee and John Leonetti and I sit in his office all day long while he was prepping. He wouldn't let us leave. We're literally. I'm like, there was, like, one chair in there. Like, John and I are sitting on the floor against the wall. [00:18:53] Speaker C: Oh, my God. Like he owned you. [00:18:55] Speaker D: Like, he owned it in this tiny little office up there in Van Nuys. And he'd go, guys, guys, you know, I was doing the train. You know, I had 200 days on the train, and we're sitting here going, does he know he has five days to do this? It was the funniest. You know, we just. He'd start telling us some story about Burt Lancaster or something. [00:19:17] Speaker E: You just reminded me of something, Greg, of Elliot Silverstein kind of doing the same thing to Chrisfaluna during. [00:19:23] Speaker D: Yeah, absolutely. Elliott was the same kind of guy that could just like, well, I'm catalou, you know, he would come off with something, but I've learned a lot. Like Elliot, I remember we had to do a scene with. We needed to find a place to have Malcolm McDowell walking, right? And we had no place. We're on location, and we were someplace over, you know, by towards Highland park, and. And we only had, like, this one little piece of sidewalk. And I remember Elliot going, okay, okay. And then he actually made something out of it. He, like, started high over him because we had nothing to shoot. And he did this whole kind of shot at night, and it turned into, like, a pretty good walking shot, which I thought had no. Oh. [00:20:09] Speaker C: What was your experience working with Bob Z? [00:20:12] Speaker E: I have one. I have just one quick anecdote that stands out to me that just showed me. It taught me so much about just being a good leader. And we were. It was when we were doing the Humphrey Bogart episode, and we. I don't know if you remember this, Greg. It was me and you and Lee and Rick Boda. Everybody was around this car because we were trying to figure out how we're going to do the final piece. And I remember it was a set pa, Stephanie, sane, that kind of raised her hand and said, what if we just use the rear view mirror? And Bob was like, looked around to all of us and was like, really? The set pa, really? And he ended up using that. But there was no ego involved with Bob. He was like, that's a great idea. He just took it, you know, and gave credit where it was due. But it's that kind of thing where the good ideas can come from anywhere, and you take it. You take it and you give credit and move on. [00:21:03] Speaker D: I think the. You know, I remember the. On that episode just. I mean, obviously, Bob is just in the whole world of himself, but he was just so creative, you know? Like, I remember we were, like, trying to figure it was really more kind of. He's so good with, like, production problems, which really surprised me. He had everything else laid up, but, boy, he knew production. He's like, all right, we got this car. It was the same episode. The cards, like, plowed into a tree or into a ditch, right? And we're trying to figure something out. We got to do this. And he's like, we just need another car, and then we can do everything. And we're like, oh, yeah, right. You know, we have another car over here, and this. Then we can get everything done. That night, you know, it was literally, like a $3,500 fix, right, to finish, to make the episode happen in whatever the days were. And it was just, like, just the light bulb of creativity with him was always very exciting to watch something develop. [00:22:04] Speaker C: When you watch a Bob Zemeckis movie, there's usually one or two moments where it's an impossible shot. It's impossible. And as he laid it out to the whole crew as to what was in his head, the question he was asking was, how am I going to do this, guys? And really, he was throwing it out there for everyone. The first day that we worked on Bob's episode, that last episode, the one with you, murderer, where Humphrey Bogart plays the dead body hero, you built that four wall set. It was fantastic. And Bob invited everybody in the crew onto the four wall set to have that first conversation. And even craft services was invited onto the set, and he explained kind of what. What the process was very briefly. And then he said, all right, guys, here's where I think the shots going to start. And he started in one corner, and then I think, then this happens. And what happens then? Okay, then this happens. Okay, then we go. Have to go over here, and we have to go over there, and then I think, oh, oh, yeah. Then we get all the way down in this corner over here. And he turned around, he looked at everyone and. And he asked that question, okay, guys, how are we going to do this? And when it gets thrown open, literally, there were answers that might not work all the way, but there were no bad answers. It could come from literally anywhere. And in that way, literally, we all took ownership of this thing. I agree. This man taught everything I know about collaboration. I learned that man's feet. [00:23:44] Speaker D: Yeah. Yeah. [00:23:44] Speaker E: For me, another. Another Zemeckis moment, too, was when he came into the editing room for Demon Knight and cut out, like, four minutes, and it changed it completely. It was like, I don't know, maybe six minutes. It wasn't a lot, but it just tightened the whole thing up, and it worked so much better. And it was just really tiny cuts here and there, stuff that none of us noticed or until after it was fixed, and we're like, oh, yeah, that's so much better. [00:24:12] Speaker C: I think of the lesbian relationship that he invented for bordello of blood between Angie and Erica that we never shot. Except for one pickup, the whole thing is intimated. We never shot any such thing. Bob did that in the editing room out of bits and pieces. Oh, we'll get there. [00:24:33] Speaker A: Todd Masters had some amazing stories that woulda, coulda, shoulda been there, starting with how he got tails. [00:24:40] Speaker C: When did you go aboard crypt? [00:24:41] Speaker G: Pretty much day one, actually. I sculpted the crypt set, actually. [00:24:46] Speaker C: So were you part of Kevin's crew? [00:24:49] Speaker G: No, no, I was part of the art department of the original. Original, original. What is it? Five episode series. You know, that whatever the low count episode season was, I knew people in the art department. They knew they had to make this crazy crypt set. They knew that I knew how to sculpt foam, and so they kind of said, well, hey, could you make this cool set? I'm like, okay. And so I started sculpting this thing, and just as it developed, it became more figures, and I pitched more demons to put in there, and I pitched this gigantic statue's head in there, and Joel started kind of walking around. I started kind of getting him involved because I knew a bunch of people that he knew at NYU, and so all of a sudden, I'm like, I get kind of into the fold, and we keep. Then we go into the noodle factory down. Yeah. And so they call me again, and they go, well, you're the crypt guy, right? I'm like, okay. And then, so we put back together the crypt, and then they're like, well, we need skeletons, and we know, well, you know, we got that stuff. So we started supplying the crypt with all the stuff and then we started doing all the wraparounds with Kevin. Not part of his crew, but kind of as part of our department. And I kept telling Bill Tytler was the producer back then, and I kept saying, I said, you know, I'm happy to have this job taking care of the crip, but I actually have a makeup effects kid. You know, I do monsters and shit. That's what my studio really does. And your show is filled with that stuff. Why don't you give us a chance to do that? And they're like, yeah, whatever. And that happened until season three. I think it was right when Gil. [00:26:31] Speaker C: And I came aboard. [00:26:32] Speaker G: Yeah, it was right before that. We did an episode called Moses Gun, I think was in it. [00:26:39] Speaker C: Oh, they went about the mortuary. [00:26:41] Speaker G: Yeah. Where he chops his feet off to shove them into the coffin. What was that one called? Anyway, so we did that one, and it was a lot of fun, and I think it went really smoothly. And it was really funny because we're kissing all the butts of all the people that just suddenly vanished. And then you guys, I'm like, wait a minute. I've been working all these years to tell people that I'm not part of the art department, to kind of slip into the. And I finally got it in, and you guys come in, and I remember meeting you guys, and I think you already had somebody. And I was. All of a sudden, I was back to being the crip guy again, which, you know, whatever. And then it took, I think, a couple episodes in for me to kind of start jumping into your guys stuff. [00:27:27] Speaker C: My dad was the medical consultant. [00:27:30] Speaker G: Oh, wow. [00:27:31] Speaker C: On the show. Because my dad was a. Was a general surgeon. [00:27:33] Speaker G: Okay. [00:27:34] Speaker C: And so I started off whenever I had questions of, you know, how. What would be a really disgusting thing. My dad was a surgeon. When I grew up, our dinner table conversation was, you know what he was operating on that day. [00:27:48] Speaker G: Yes. [00:27:50] Speaker C: If you were squeamish at our dinner table, you were not going to last long, because he was either. You know what my dad had worked on that day? What he had cut open. You know, I saw this appendix today. [00:28:00] Speaker G: It was. [00:28:00] Speaker C: It was so. [00:28:02] Speaker G: In fact, you wouldn't believe it. [00:28:03] Speaker C: I mean, the puss was coming out of here. [00:28:05] Speaker G: You know, liver is delicious. [00:28:07] Speaker C: It was out of the Vietnam war, which was on tv at the time, so, you know, take your pick. So my dad was the medical consultant, and for the. For Whoopi's episode, it took place in the jungle, and it was about a pearl, a hidden pearl, and John Rhys Davies played this plantation owner who had hidden the pearl in his gut. [00:28:31] Speaker G: Got it. Okay. [00:28:32] Speaker C: And what we wanted to. What my idea for wouldn't this be disgusting is if you had to reach your hands into the man's guts to get the pearl, so you'd have to kill him, slice into his guts. And what if he was riddled with worms? And so that in order to put your hand in and grab the thing, these things, they could theoretically infect you through your pores? This was my crazy hate. Wouldn't that be great and disgusting if my dad and I said, all right. [00:29:06] Speaker G: Hey, dad, do I have a project for you? [00:29:10] Speaker C: And my dad said, well, not really. That's not really, really how anything works out here in reality. You know, there are schistosomes, he said, which are kinds of microscopic worms, but schistosomes in your gut and schistosomes that can penetrate your skin are really different creatures entirely. But I said, no worries. No worries. I don't worry about that. If my audience is asking that question, I've already lost them. I said, schistosomiasis. I think it was the condition that he had his gut. All right, so I don't remember now if. When. When we did that episode, if I went to you and I said, hey, Todd Schistones. [00:29:55] Speaker G: I hope you did. But actually, I think it was Mike Spatola. [00:29:58] Speaker C: Oh, right. [00:29:59] Speaker G: I think it was Mike Spatola's episode. He was. [00:30:01] Speaker C: I've just wasted my. Wasted all our time. [00:30:03] Speaker G: Not a problem. I've got Mike right over here. Hey, Mike. No, I'm kidding. Mike's a good friend. No, he's a wonderful artist. He did quite a few episodes, I think, the same season, and I think I came in, there was an episode. Was it the one that Tom Hanks directed? I think it was. I think. [00:30:23] Speaker F: Yeah. [00:30:23] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:30:23] Speaker C: That was the first. The first. So that was the next season where you became the guy. [00:30:27] Speaker G: That's right. I think I finally reconvinced the producer of the show that I got my makeup effects job, and. [00:30:34] Speaker C: And that's when it became a fairly. As of that season, when I would go looking for you back in your department, and sometimes you and I would sit with the. With the pathology textbooks open. [00:30:45] Speaker G: Yes. Oh, God. I still have that horrible book, too, and it's covered in monsters. [00:30:49] Speaker C: Horrible. [00:30:50] Speaker G: It's wonderful. Oh, it's the. I mean, it's so colorful. It's beautiful. [00:30:55] Speaker C: Horrible. [00:30:55] Speaker G: But it's just disgusting. I don't think you can find it anymore. [00:30:59] Speaker C: Well, my dad, having been a surgeon, the literature that he would get, the JAMA, the journal of the American Medical association publications. And there was, oh, God, there was another publication he got all the time that was for surgeons, which had amazing artwork. I mean, just stunningly realistic, almost photorealistic artwork. I forget the name of the artist. He was quite, quite good. [00:31:21] Speaker G: Oh, fantastic. [00:31:22] Speaker C: You know, they would like, every possible awful thing that a surgeon might encounter was this guy's artwork. Right? [00:31:30] Speaker G: But how fantastic for a boy's imagination. [00:31:34] Speaker A: Of everything Todd ever did for crypt, my very favorite makeup effects gag was the meatloaf butt steak that Todd did for the what's cookin episode. [00:31:43] Speaker G: Oh, meatloaf. Our buddy meat loaf. We've lost a few good ones from crypto. Yeah, meat as he wanted to be cooked. [00:31:50] Speaker C: Mister loaf to you. [00:31:51] Speaker G: Do you remember that, that meeting we had about his size when we cast meatloaf? [00:31:56] Speaker C: This was, the episode was called what's cookin'it? Was about a couple. You'll direct it. It was about a couple. Christopher Reeve played the wife and Bess Armstrong played the husband. Bess Armstrong played the wife. A couple who own a failing restaurant that serves only squid he's looking for. Well, they're about to lose their restaurant. They're going out of business. And the homeless guy who sweeps up for them, he's got an idea for something, but they pooh pooh it. The next day, they show up. Well, just, the wife goes home. The landlord shows up to collect the last of the rent, and hes going to lock them out. And the husband goes home to give her the bad news. They show up the next morning figuring its the end, and theres a pile of fresh steak in the refrigerator. What the hell? They throw the fresh steak onto the grill, and, man, the smell is intoxicating. The next thing you know, theres a line of people out the door, and the homeless guy who, you know, sweeps up, he says, yeah, I know a supplier. And as, as the supplier and as the, uh, you know, the, the first bunch of stakes has been, been exhausted. And the homeless guy says, ah, there's, there's some more in the walk in refrigerator in the back freezer. Yeah, Fred, follow me. And, and the homeless guy was played by Judd Nelson. And Chris follows Judd into the, the meat locker, and they're hanging dead on a meat hook is naked meatloaf. And, of course, in the scene, Chris's character, Christopher Reeve's character, is horrified as he watches Judd Nelson's character approach with a tray and a butcher's knife. And he whacks off a big hunk of meat and then another hunk of meat, and he slaps him onto the tray. He walks past Christopher Reeve, who's still standing there, gobsmacked, and he says, hey, don't leave the door open. He'll spoil. All right, so that was the scene, and the challenge was to create that naked meat, the naked meat from which to take the butt sticks. Now, the problem was this was as a body cast, a complicated cast, and it required how much time, really, to get that right. Would it really have required just start to finish? [00:34:24] Speaker G: Oh, to actually make that dummy. Well, I mean, that was supposed to be a really hero dummy with a section that you could slice. I mean, it affect and everything. I mean, we should have had, like, a month on that. I think we had. [00:34:37] Speaker C: We had three days. [00:34:38] Speaker G: Yeah, it was crazy. [00:34:39] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. I mean, we had the idea, and then we cast meatloaf three days before he played, so there was no way to do it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, and, you know, we had talked about meatloaf, and we hoped we were going to get meatloaf, but we didn't have meatloaf. He wasn't signed until three days before he worked. So we would have cast someone else of a similar body type, but we. We went with what we thought. [00:35:03] Speaker G: He's perfect. He was perfect for it. [00:35:05] Speaker C: He would. [00:35:05] Speaker G: He would have been able to feed a restaurant full of people. That was the whole point. [00:35:09] Speaker C: You. You used. How heavy was the body model? The. The model. The body that the human who you actually based the body on, pushing 400. [00:35:20] Speaker G: You know, I mean, you know, I think he was upper three. Not that we, you know, I don't remember us actually weighing him, but we, you know, meat loaf walks into our meeting, like, I guess he must have just fell off the plane or something. And we're expecting, you know, to just whisk him away and mold him like that day. And he walks in and he's thinner than you. [00:35:40] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. He had just gone on a crash. [00:35:42] Speaker G: Diet, like a Jenny Craig thing or something like that. [00:35:45] Speaker C: He was proud. [00:35:46] Speaker F: So proud of it. [00:35:47] Speaker G: He was so. Because he was known as the fat guy for decades, the sweaty, fat, you know, singer that, you know, was kind of. That was his brand. And he walks in looking like Alan, and Alan looks like you're, what, 100? [00:36:03] Speaker C: 8100? 800? I'm 120 if I'm lucky. [00:36:09] Speaker G: Oh, well, okay. See, I live in a different. I'm a. I'm a big guy myself, so I'm. I'm hoping for 100. I keep looking to 180, thinking that, that's what, you know, thin people live like. [00:36:19] Speaker C: I guess I'm still, I am small of stature. [00:36:23] Speaker G: Okay, well, I'm still a monster, but I'm slowly becoming thinner. How about that? But aiming for one. A. [00:36:29] Speaker C: But Mister Loaf was, was quite, when he saw the, the body that you had used in place of him, he was not happy. [00:36:39] Speaker G: Well, he was especially not happy because we gave him little junk. [00:36:42] Speaker C: You give him a little, we gave him a little junk. [00:36:47] Speaker G: Because it's not like we molded. We found some other actor and we just used meet's head and then we fused it together in that quick making of body period. And it's not like we molded the actor completely naked. He probably had shorts on, so we had to sculpt a certain part of it. And so when it came time for the, you know, the twigs and berries, we're figuring, well, he's at the freezer. It's not really going to be seen. So we're not going to put a gigantic schlong on there and we're certainly not going to make him a Ken doll sensitive. Well, honestly, we were thinking story, you know, it's in the freezer, he's dead and he's big, so he's not going to have much. And so meat was really mad about that and, but there wasn't much anyone could, could do. [00:37:35] Speaker C: He, but, but to add, in a way, to add insult to the injury, in order so that this now thinner Mister Loaf would match the body double that was going to be hanging in the meat locker, he, he could not appear as the svelte loaf that he now was as the diet loaf. He, he had to, where we had to put a considerable bit of padding on him so that he would look like the old heavier meatloaf. [00:38:01] Speaker G: Yeah. Ye olde fat suit. You know, which actors love those and. Yeah, so he, you know, so he really, I know he hated me. I don't know if he hated you. [00:38:14] Speaker C: Well, it's not what he bargained for. It's not like we paid anybody. [00:38:20] Speaker G: Years later, we actually did a similar dummy duplicate body of his daughter, who I think Cindy Lauper called her little loaf and lovely person was for carnival. And I was just kind of like scratching my head before she came in. It's like, I'm sure she doesn't, she's never heard this story. I'm sure she's never heard my name. And she came in like, I've heard all about you. And it was just like, oh, my, it could have happened like an hour before she was great. But it was pretty funny that it's still pretty fresh in the family conversation. [00:38:55] Speaker A: Of course, the hardest stories to leave on the cutting room floor, the Joel stories. Colleen neisted was our canadian production manager, and she's currently a Vancouver city councilor. [00:39:07] Speaker H: Well, if you remember Vancouver, that theater was on Hastings street and a really bad part of town. It's since burned down. [00:39:19] Speaker C: That wasn't our fault. [00:39:21] Speaker H: No, it wasn't our fault. But one of my. That was. Wow. That was right down at Hastings in main area, which is pretty serious territory as Vancouver goes anywhere nowadays. But Joel came down there. I don't know if you remember that. I know you want to talk about Joel. I mean, it's so bad down there that the teamsters are hiding in the trucks. No one wants to come out into the alleys behind that. What was the name of that theater? And Joel comes. This was after the. Obviously after the airport incident when we got him into town. But everybody's hiding, and Joel goes out the back of the. And starts walking up and down the alley with, you know, what year was that? 1993. What year was it? And with the. With the cell phone of the time. And he has these big hands and the cell phone, and he's wearing. The guys used to call him, the Teamsters called him the pajamator because he wore this kind of mumu pajama outfit. [00:40:25] Speaker C: I recall Lee Knippelberg, our first, actually. [00:40:30] Speaker H: Coined the term the pajamator. [00:40:33] Speaker C: Yes, it was Lee. He came up with that. [00:40:36] Speaker H: So anyhow, everybody's hiding because they don't want to go into the alley, and Joel is just walking, yelling is top of. I mean, today, you'd think that he was one of the mental patients down there. [00:40:49] Speaker A: When it comes to Joel's stories, nobody has Joel stories like Gill's. And these are the ones that didn't make the cut. [00:40:57] Speaker F: But I've always had a place in my heart for him, oddly enough, because of all the work that we did together and how we worked when we worked together, maybe more after crip than during crypt, was. Our relationship was one of argument. We would only argue. We never had a conversation. And he would call me at home and I would answer the phone, or Jeannie would say, it's Joel. And I would get on the phone, and she would know within 30 seconds who I was talking to, because my vibratory level went from talking to you like this to being equal to him in screaming and yelling at him. In fact, I once had an argument with him. I said, to him, yo, Joel, we don't talk to each other. We only argue. And he said, no, what are you talking about? We talk. We talk all the time. I said, no, we don't talk. We argue. Which then led into a heated argument about us not talking but arguing. I never forget it. In fact, I remember at the end saying to him, you see what just happened? I'm trying to have a conversation with you, and now we're having an argument, and we're having an argument about why we're not having a conversation. We're arguing. And that was sort of the summation of the relationship for all the time that we worked together. And it was sort of sad in one respect, but in another respect, I still have that admiration for seeing whatever he saw in us and continuing on with me with these other movies and giving me that opportunity. And it's sad. I find it really sad because here's a guy who was very instrumental in our careers early on and in my career later on, and who I actually liked working with. When we were talking about material, which only happened when we were alone behind closed doors in his office, we could talk about material, and we could actually talk about making good material. [00:42:54] Speaker C: How would you describe Joel's strengths? [00:42:57] Speaker F: Well, there is a passion. And, you know, for me, it always started with passion. Whatever I've done, it's always been, you know, passion about doing it, and then you figure out how to do it. And it seems to me, you know, Joel has that. Sometimes I think he gets lost after the acknowledgement of the passion. He gets lost in the execution of. How do you get to that place, you know, whether he threatens you or, you know, demands this or demands that? Orlando, in some respects, he's his own worst enemy. And in some respects, I understand the frustration of passion, trying to make that passion into reality and all the obstacles that are in the way. And sometimes I think I should have been more like him. And sometimes I'm very, very grateful that I'm not because I probably would be dead. And it's really interesting because a lot of people along the way, especially in interviews, and when we talk about Joel, they go, it's so unbelievable that you and Joel worked together for as long as you did, because you guys seem like totally two different kinds of guys. And I said, well, we were, but maybe that's why it worked. So years pass, and it's now, oh, I don't know, probably late nineties. And so our movie came out, and we've all gone on, and I get a call. I was represented at those time, in those days by CAA. And I got a call from my agent saying, first of all, what we think is you should be a tv director. And I go, well, no, I'm a film producer and I write with Alan, but maybe I want to direct a little more. And they say, well, you should be a tv director. So the next thing I hear from CIA is that this new show, Fantasy Island, Jeremy Josephson is producing it, and he's asking for you to direct an episode. So I get a call from the agent. I go, no, no, no. I don't want to. I don't want to do television. You sure? Because it's in Hawaii. They're shooting in Hawaii. And because of the schedule, you'd have to be there about eight weeks. And I said, no, I don't care about Hawaii and I don't care about the eight weeks. And I hang up and I'm really upset, right? And Jeanne, I go in to see my wife, and my wife said, what was that all about? I said, well, you know, they want me to go to Hawaii and direct an episode of Fantasy island. And she said. And. And I said. And I told him no. And she said, so you turned down a job to direct a network show, fantasy island, with somebody, you know, Malcolm McDowell, and we'd be in Hawaii for eight weeks, all expenses paid, plus they're going to pay you a salary. Is that what you just did? I said, do you want to go to Hawaii? And she said, well, that would be nice. So I ran out of the kitchen, ran over to my office, and I called back my agent, and I said, well, I'll do it, but I want to read the script first. And they called me back a few minutes later and they said, the trouble is they would love to agree to that, but they can't agree to that because the script isn't written yet. I said, well, then how am I going to commit to it? I don't even know what the hell they're doing. And he said, well, this is what they can do. They can make sure if you agree to do the move, the episode when you leave LA on the seat, when you get on the plane will be the script. And I said, that's bullshit. That's never going to happen. Well, that's what they're offering. So we said, yes. And I get on the plane. Sure enough, there's a script. So I read the script two or three times. My wife reads it two or three times. We get off the plane, and I go. They take me right to a production meeting. Don't go to a hotel. Go anywhere. And I sit down with the executive producers, who are now the executive producers of Chicago Med and very established and very good writers. And I go into this room and they said to me, so how do you see the war? And I start sweating because I'm like, the war? The war? What the fuck are they talking about? So I said, oh, the war. Well, war. What were you guys thinking? And they said, well, no, we want to hear what you have in mind. And I said, oh, so could somebody just show me in the script where exactly what you're referring to? And in the middle of page 37, there's a sentence that says, the war begins, period. That's what they were referring to. So I, knowing that this means something to them, said, oh, well, that the war. I want it to be like Private Ryan, but for television. And by the way, has the first id done a board for this? Do we. Do we know how much time we have to shoot this particular scene? [00:47:45] Speaker C: The war begins. [00:47:46] Speaker F: Yeah. And so they said, oh, that's a good question. Yeah, let's get the first ad in here. So the ad comes in, he goes, sure, I boarded it out. I haven't gone over it with Gil, but I have it boarded out. And I have a half a day for that scene with a war. [00:48:00] Speaker C: And it just says, the war begins. [00:48:02] Speaker F: The war begins. So I go, half a day. Okay, so let's think about Private Ryan in half a day. So I want imos, I want three cameras. And I start spouting off, I have no idea what I'm talking about, but. And they are loving it. So they go, wow, that sounds great. Can you do it? And I said, the only thing I want to do, I ask you, is I want this to be the last half of the day of our eight day shoot. Can we do that? Of course. It gives me more time to prep. So I shoot this right now. While I'm shooting this, I'm working with Malcolm. And Malcolm one day says to the ad, I need to see Gil privately. And I'm like, what did I do to Malcolm? I mean, oh, my God, he's going to fire me. What? So I go behind the sets while they're redoing the lights, and I find Malcolm, and I go, Malcolm, what's going on? What's the matter? What's the problem? And he goes, no, no, there's no problem. I need you to listen to a conversation I'm about to have. I'm going to call up the head of ABC. And I'm going to tell him, you know, we're doing the fourth episode now. I need you here every other episode. You're by far the best director we've had. You talk to the actors, you listen to what we have to say, you make adjustments. These other three jamokas that before you, they got bigger names, they've done more television. They don't know what the fuck they're doing. So I go, Malcolm, I'm going to be real honest with you, okay? You don't want to do that because the fact is I am frightened to death because every shot I think of, I think there's a better shot. And so I'm not a happy camper. I want to go home. And he laughs and I go, no, Malcolm, I'm not joking. I'm dead serious. So he goes, okay, okay. And he starts dialing the phone and he gets ABC and he gets the. I forgot the guy's name. Steve. I can't remember his last name. Steve. Somebody gets him on the phone and now Malcolm has him on the speaker and he goes, I'm here with Gilhezen and I just want to say, I need you to call CIA and book him for every other episode. He is great. And he starts. And I'm going, Malcolm, don't say that. No, no, Malcolm, Malcolm. He finishes the conversation, hangs up, and of course the guy says, I'm going to call CIA right away. So I get off, he gets off the phone and I go, Malcolm, you just. You're killing me. I can't do this. I'm not being Coyenne. I'm frightened to death. And he goes, I love it. I love it. Let's go back and shoot. So I go back to LA and I said to him, look, I can't do the next one because they booked me to do charmed, an episode of Charmed. So I go back to LA. I have about two days of downtime. I go do charmed. By the time I finish charmed, they had canceled that show. They had only made eight episodes. I had only done the fourth one. So in the meantime, I finished the first. The first day of working on Charmed, I say to them, you've been shooting about a half a dozen episodes so far as the first season. And I said, I'm a new guy. So, you know, if I say something or I set something up and you don't like it or you don't think your character would do it, just say, just tell me that. Tell me why. And then we'll figure it out. So, of course, they don't believe that I mean that. So in the first shot that I set up, the three of them are all over me, and I listen to each one, and the idea is saying, come on, we got to shoot. We got to shoot nice. No, no, no. We don't have to shoot. I need to get this right. And so I talk to the three ladies and find out what. I go, okay, so how about if we did this? Instead of, I'll dolly this way, I'll dolly this way, you'll move this way, you move that way. And I go, Shannon. Shannon Dougherty. Is that good for you? Yeah. And I asked the other two girls, and they said, well, yeah, yeah. And so I shot it that way, and we had a great day, because every. Every time we set up a new scene, I would say, okay, this is what I'm thinking. This is what I see. And let's try it that way, and let's block it out that way. And if you guys have any conversation, you know, to offer up, you know, let's have a conversation about it. You know, now's the time. And, of course, they would test me a few times. And then finally it got to the point where they loved everything. So I finished shooting the day, and I go home, the phone rings, and my wife answers the phone, and she says to me, there's a man on the phone. His name is Duke. He wants to talk to Gil Adler. I go, who is he? I don't know. I just told you what he said. My name is Duke. I want to talk to Gil Adam. So I get on the phone. I go, hello? And he goes, hello, is this Gil? I go, yes. He goes, this is Duke Vincent. Now, Duke Vincent, at the time was Aaron spellings partner and owned charmed. He goes, this is Duke Vincent. Do you know who I am? And I said, oh, yeah, I know who you are. What's the matter? And he says, what did you do to my girl? I'm thinking, oh, my God. What did they say to him? I mean, oh, my God, I'm probably not going to work tomorrow. And I said very defensively, I don't know. What did I say to you? I don't think I said anything. Why? What did they say? I said, he said, they called me each individually, not together. And they just said, you got to get this guy for every other episode of Charmed. You know, we had a great day. We had fun, and he was really. So now I'm like, oh, okay, cool. So I go, oh, that's. So he goes, so I'm going to be calling CAA tomorrow to try to make a deal with you, right? I hang up, and I'm thinking, well, that's interesting. I mean, I don't know if I want to do this or not. And I'm sitting there, and about an hour later, yeah, about an hour later, the phone rings, and it's Joel Silver. And Joel starts yelling at me, going, what the hell is the matter with you? I know what you're doing, and I don't like it. You're producing for me, and what is this nonsense with the television? You got to stop it. And I said, joel, I don't know what you're talking about. The thing in Hawaii is dead. The show's got canceled. He goes, and what about charmed? I said, how do you know about charmed? I just finished that. And he goes, don't you worry about how I know everything in Hollywood. I know everything. And of course, Ronnie Meyer was a really good friend of his, so he says, so you got to stop. You got to stop right now. No more television directing. I go, Joel, I'm just filling in and making a living until we greenlight our next movie. He goes, I'm green lighting the movie right now. And I go, Joel, I'm sorry, you can't greenlight the movie. You're not Warner Brothers. He goes, I am Warner brothers. He goes, well. I said, well, you can't greenlight the movie. And he goes, okay, okay. You want. You want a check? I'm going to send you a check. I'm going to send a check for $25,000. I said, joel, this is not about money, and this is not about a check. It's just that I'm not making a movie right now. I don't have a movie, so I'm working. When you're ready to make a movie, we'll discuss that. And we get into this big blowout, and we both hang up the phone, right? And I'm sort of shaking, I'm so pissed off. About an hour and a half later, the buzzer rings outside, and it's messenger from Warner Brothers. And I figured, oh, it's another script that they want me to look at. And so the guy comes over, and he gives me a little envelope, and I open up the envelope, and I'll never forget this. It was a check from Warner Brothers, not from Silver Pictures, for $50,000. Enough said. [00:55:49] Speaker C: Yes, for being you. [00:55:51] Speaker F: And I never directed another television episode, because the next day, I went. And I had my office in Warner Brothers, and we started the next picture. [00:56:02] Speaker A: And finally, there's this one. How it all came to an end between Gil and Joe. [00:56:08] Speaker F: You know, when we finished Superman returns in Australia, Bryan Singer and I were in the lot, and we were walking, I think, back from lunch, and it's like the scene in this thing where the two guys are coming at each other and, you know, that one is the assassin and one might be killed. And I see in the distance, Joel is walking with the director of Gothika towards us. And this is the first time I've seen or been near him since I broke his phone. And I'm thinking to myself, oh, God, what's going to happen here? Is he going to cream me or take a shot at me? And I'm with Brian Singer, and we're talking. And Brian, a few months earlier, had a conversation with Joel about some movie. So when we reach each other, Brian goes, hey, Joel. And they stop. And we stop. And I had said to Joel, I'll never talk to you again. That was the. That was my last word to you. I'll never talk to you again. And so we pass. Now it's like two years later, we pass on the lot, and Ryan says, hey, Joel, how you doing? And Joel goes, oh, Brian, hey, how's everything going? And he says, yeah, you know, we're doing, you know, finishing Superman in the editing room. And Brian, with a lapse of memory, says, do you know Gil Adler? He's my producer on, you know, on. And Joel looks at me and goes, yeah, I know him. How you doing? And since I had said I'd never speak to him again, I went, oh, I didn't. I wouldn't answer with a word, right? At which point I see at the corner of my eye Brian realizing what a faux pas he had made. And of course he knows I know Joel Silver. And so he exits. We leave, and we're walking away, and now they're walking away in the opposite direction. And Brian, about ten steps later, stops me, and he looks at me, very ashamed, and goes, I'm so sorry. Of course I know you know Joel Silver. Oh, my God. Well, how could I have been so stupid? How could I have said that to you? And I said, it's okay, it's okay. It doesn't matter. But that's. That's how it was. And I never spoke to him after that. [00:58:17] Speaker A: It's ironic, don't you think, that a relationship with Joel would end with a whimpered instead of a bang on the next episode of the how not to make a movie podcast, the making of Bordello of blood. The dads from the crypt finally get their chance to step out here onto the stage. We may think we told our story, but apparently there are unanswered questions. We'll answer them all next time. [00:58:41] Speaker C: See you then. [00:58:46] Speaker A: The how not to make a movie podcast is executive produced by me, Alan Katz, and by Jason Stein. Our artwork was done by the amazing Jody Webster and Jason. Jody, along with Mando, are all the hosts of the fun and informative dads from the Crypt podcast. Follow them for what my old pal the Crypt keeper would have called terrific crypt content.