S3E49: What Do Horror, Parenting & Podcasting Have In Common?

[00:00:00] Speaker A: This podcast is a collaboration between Costard and Touchstone Productions and the Dads from the Crypt podcast. Jason, come on in. Hello and welcome to another episode of the how not to Make a Movie podcast. I'm Alan Katz. Today's episode asks, what do horror, movies, parenting and podcasting have in common? The answer is actually really short, sweet, and simple. The Dads from the Crip Podcast One of the main reasons there's a How not to Make a Movie podcast is because there's a Dads from the Crypt podcast. I'll dive into the story momentarily, but one of the pleasures of podcasting, for me anyway, is watching other podcasters, especially ones I know, succeed. There are tons of reasons why podcasting is exploding now. One of them is because podcasts can have horror, podcasting and parenting in common. I first met Jason Stein, one of the Dads from the Crypt, four years ago. Hardcore horror fans Jason and his friends Jody Webster and Armando Aguilar had created a podcast during the lockdown as a way of keeping their sanity. The concept was simple but delightfully offbeat. The three would review every single episode of HBO's iconic Tales from the Crypt and also give parenting advice. Thus, Dads from the Crypt, Jason, Jody, and Armando recognized early on that podcasting is the ultimate grassroots medium, totally DIY where content creation is concerned. All you have to do is find your audience and help them find you. Do that and you can succeed on your terms doing something you love. And the money, should there be any, and that's not entirely far fetched at all. You may not get rich doing this, but you might just pay the bills and keep the lights on and even pay for a nice vacay or two every year for as long as the podcast lasts. There are challenges, make no mistake, but it's nothing that hard work and dedication can't conquer. Make great content or content people want. You're halfway there. As I said, the reason there's a How not to Make a Movie podcast is because one day Jason invited me to guest on their podcast while they reviewed one of the episodes that I wrote. We did it and it went great. A few weeks later, Jason contacted me again. This time he said, we're going to review Bordello of Blood, the second Tales from the Crypt branded feature film that we produced back in the 1990s 90s. You want to sit in with us again? He asked. Jason, I said, telling the Bordello of Blood story is more than just a podcast episode. Why, it's a and here's where the clouds parted A whole podcast unto itself. Because they were so instrumental in creating how not to make a Movie podcast, I made the dads from the podcast permanent executive producers. But Jason is more than just a Crypt fan, a parent and a podcaster, he's joined the ranks of movie makers, too. We'll talk about Recipe for a Visit with Mike Vosberg, a documentary Jason shot about in his visit to Crip cover artist Mike Vosberg's studio. It really is an amazing world where one person's passion for something like Jason's passion for Crypt can open doors to unexpected choices and paths. So what do horror, parenting, and podcasting have in common? Way, way, way more than you'd think. [00:03:49] Speaker B: You don't use the video, right? [00:03:51] Speaker A: I do. [00:03:51] Speaker B: Oh, you do. Okay, never mind. You do. That's fine. [00:03:55] Speaker A: You. You want to do a wardrobe change? [00:03:57] Speaker B: No. [00:04:00] Speaker A: You can if you want to. [00:04:01] Speaker B: I could put pants on if you want, but. [00:04:04] Speaker A: Well, then I'll feel obligated to put pants on. Well, Jason and I, we just did an episode of Dads from the Crypt where among the other things that you review now, since you've run out of episodes of Tales from the Crypt to review, you've been editing. Well, now you're editing the EC comics as just before they publish. What other things have you been reviewing out at Dads from the Crypt? [00:04:36] Speaker B: Yeah, so I think it's always an ever evolving podcast since we finished Tales from the Crypt and then we did some Black Mirror, then we did some Twilight Zone and we did some creep show episodes. And I mean, easy Comics is always kind of part of our DNA. So I've been really. Since. Now that we've had this revival that started over the summer, it's been really important to me to like, kind of be part of that and kind of, you know, since I don't have any, like, other new, you know, easy things to really talk about. So it's been really enjoyable to have those things. And I've been, you know, sometimes they're swings and misses, sometimes they're, you know, they're, they're, they're home runs, you know, as like anything. But I've been really enjoying that. But I think now we did, we did some, like, staff picks for a couple months just to have some fun for some movies and stuff and, you know, some stuff does a little of our wheelhouse or just for shits and giggles, we did a Sam Neil month just because we, we started one Sam Neil movie and then we're like, well, we're gonna do one. Let's just do some more. And we did. Like, why not? [00:05:39] Speaker A: He doesn't get enough love, Sam Neil. [00:05:41] Speaker B: I know. No, that's really true though. He's like, I've never seen Dead Calm before with Billy Zane. Really good movie. I really enjoyed that one. [00:05:50] Speaker A: Very good movie. Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:05:51] Speaker B: We did in the Mouth of Madness. I think that's what I'll start. That's one of Mondo's favorite movies. And he was. He was having a little rough pass love. His beloved animals passed away. So we said he just choose whatever comfort movie you want to talk about. So he chose the Mouth of Madness because, you know, apocalyptic John Carpenter movies always, you know, hit the spot. And then we did. We did Event Horizon, which is another, you know, Sam Neal personal favorite of mine, Day Calm. And I always forget the other one we did is. But yeah, you can never go wrong. And then. So now we're going back to doing Creep show, the TV series, you know, by Greg Nicotero among many other people. And you know, John Harrison is very involved with that as well. But we're kind of altering that with movies. At least that's what been in the last couple months, you know. You know, as if that one week at the beginning of November wasn't bad enough, Tony Todd passed away, which is, you know, huge devastation to the horror community. Like, it's like a huge light went out. So we decided to review Candyman and you know, just to pay tribute. And then we're doing a movie called Blood Rage this week. Al, have you heard this one? [00:07:04] Speaker A: I have not. [00:07:05] Speaker B: It's kind of a 80s mid-80s psycho slasher movie centered around Thanksgiving. It. But it's one of those that like anything and everything can happen in this kind of movie. This. It just not much makes sense. Like you can totally just. It's like film. It's gonzo filmmaking kind of thing where we're just filming and then we'll edit. We'll fix it in the edit somehow. And sometimes it works something that doesn't. Like, I think if I'm not mistaken, depending what version you watch, like they put on the wrong title card for the movie. Like, does it match what's on the label of the dvd? It's. It's one of those, like, it's just a beautiful mess. And those are comedies. [00:07:46] Speaker A: I love an epic example of how not to make a movie. I. [00:07:49] Speaker B: Well, this is the example of how not to make. How not to make a movie in the conventional way, but turns out to be something really enjoyable if you're the right Type of people. Like, some movies are bad bad. And some of these are bad good. And some of these are good good. So I think. I think especially genre slash horror fans, whatever you want to call us, we can really enjoy a bad, good movie. A movie that's bad, but it has so much. There's something about that so charming that we really enjoy. And that's a lot of my favorite movies are like that. [00:08:21] Speaker A: Charmingly inept. [00:08:23] Speaker B: Yes, exactly. Like on every. On every measurable metric, it should fail, but it just has some sort of special juice that makes it worth watching. And it's kind of thing where like 9 out of 10 people will be like, no, that's awful. I don't want to watch. I'll never watch that again. For me, I'm like, give it to me more. I mean, my biggest example of that is Sleepaway Camp, which, again, is another 80s slasher movies that, again, the acting is bad, the script is bad, but everyone is trying so hard to make a movie a movie. Not saying good movie, but a movie that it just. And there's just so many bizarre moments that it just is just so charming. And I just love it. The beasts. [00:09:12] Speaker A: You feel very compelled to keep the conversation going between the dads from the Crypt. [00:09:19] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, it's something that we all three of us enjoy. It's. You know, it's. Yeah. I don't know. As long as we're enjoying it, we'll keep doing it. And, you know, we get. We get some episodes get more listeners than others or other times a year. And, you know, I. Not. I mean, it's fun to watch it when those things happen, but when it doesn't, you kind of like, okay, I had a good time. [00:09:43] Speaker A: Would you say that podcasting has one of a better term, become part of your life? [00:09:50] Speaker B: Oh, yes. You can look around the room. But it's funny because I saw someone say that podcasting now is what starting a garage band in the 60s and 70s was to, you know, that generation. So you just want excuse to get with the guys. You know, what you're doing isn't technically that impressive on a quality level, but you enjoy doing it, and you're kind of. You're creating a little bit of dialogue with some other people. That's the fun part. [00:10:18] Speaker A: I love the DIY nature of it. You know, the pandemic leveled the playing field in a really profound way. Before the Pandemic, if you wanted to be a broadcaster in any way, shape or form, you had to be pristine. Yeah, but the p. But the pandemic changed that because everyone had to stay home and a lot of people had to broadcast. Journalists were all broadcasting from their basements via zoom and suddenly that became an acceptable. Yeah, the, the zoom technology is good for everybody. [00:10:59] Speaker B: I think the barrier to entry hit at the right moment of the pandemic. Like if a pandemic had happened a couple years before, think the entry level, at least at that time might have been a little higher and maybe it would have accelerated. Oh, I think the buried entry was just at that moment becoming low enough for the average person to jump into it. [00:11:17] Speaker A: Oh, indeed. And, and the, the way that, that, you know, the legacy media has been fra. Fracturing and losing social media has undone. [00:11:32] Speaker B: Really for worse. [00:11:33] Speaker A: Yeah. One way or the other. Certainly my kids do not get their news in any way, shape or form from legacy media. They, they never did. And after this past election it has been catastrophic for, for all the legacy media except Fox, NBC, msnbc. [00:11:52] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:11:52] Speaker A: Literally lost half its audience. Lost half its audience. [00:11:56] Speaker B: I'm curious if they'll come back because yeah, I did the very. I did the media blackout for a couple days and I'm still not nearly at the level I was. I'm slowly creeping back. So I think people will come back to some degree. But yeah, it really did change that. And I think the beauty, the promise of the Internet is that everyone has, will have an equal voice or able to access any other voice, which on paper sounds like a great thing, that it sounds like a great vision. But at the same time, should everyone have an equal say or an equal weight to a voice? Like if you, if someone is knowledgeable about something now they are. Now they're on the exact same footing ground as someone who can just talk other ass about something. [00:12:39] Speaker A: But that is, but that is, that is where America is right now. [00:12:42] Speaker B: Exactly. [00:12:43] Speaker A: That is what this last election was all about. Expertise is no longer relevant to a lot of people. And I wouldn't say it's not relevant to everyone because there are an awful lot of us when, when this is finally all done. Yeah. I think expertise will remain standing because they know how to keep the lights on. [00:13:06] Speaker B: Yeah, hopefully. Yeah. [00:13:10] Speaker A: But, but in, in the meantime, what I, what I like about Mel, I think legacy media is going to run scared for a couple of years and because they're going to run scared, they will become a less and less reliable voice. I think, I think journalism, American journalism, because it's going to vacate the premises of mainstream media because it doesn't want to cross a line. It won't be able to, if it wants to be able to stay a broadcaster. So a lot of journalists will. Journalism will shed journalists. And where will those journalists land? They're going to land in podcasting, right? And I think, hey, Rachel Maddow's done some brilliant podcasts. Her ultra podcasts are fantastic. Rachel Maddow is already here. And so a lot of people will like Rachel. They will, the, the next version of American journalism will rise out of podcasting. And because especially when I turned off the news, I turned right to podcasting. And I'm kind of, I'm not broken hearted about that because I've discovered a world filled with wonderful voices telling amazing stories. I love the fact that I'm part of it. I hope, I hope you, I hope you love the fact that you're part of this amazing community of which again. [00:14:37] Speaker B: Of DIYers, which again is a great promise. My worry about that, I don't know if this is what we really want to talk about this whole time, but again, my worry about that is that now you only subscribe to the podcast that you agree with or that are telling you what you want to hear. And that's why I like listening to other dissenting voices. So like in la, there isn't really on the ams. There isn't really any progressive radio. I mean, there used to be like Air America and you know, I'm sure there were other things, but those don't exist anymore. So the only, only thing on AM radio is either sports or relatively right wing commentators. [00:15:16] Speaker A: So when I'm on the radio, but. [00:15:19] Speaker B: Well, I'm saying, I'm saying as an example, so I like to, I hate listen to a lot of those because I want to hear what the other side, what their thoughts are, how they're perceiving things. And I want to keep myself open to that. But on the flip side, when you're listening, when you're choosing what podcast to listen to, you know, I think a lot I'm worried about the trend being that you're going to be listening to the stories told in the ways that, you know, confirm your own biases. And I want to have my bias. That's why I try to find podcasts that give other perspectives like the one I'll do every Friday is left, right and center where they have, you know, a journalist and a Republican strategist and a Democratic strategist. And yeah, the Republican isn't like a MAGA head or anything, but at least like they're giving a different perspective and they're kind of showing the both sides of the stories. [00:16:09] Speaker A: I will say I cut politics out completely. I don't even listen. I do not listen to political podcasts at this particular moment. I just. I think the dust is still settling and I. [00:16:22] Speaker B: That's the only one I still listen to at the moment. Yeah, I cut back out all the other ones I was listening to. [00:16:28] Speaker A: I'm. I'm more interested in just the storytelling and just the human, you know, hearing a lot of podcasting is so simple. It's too two people, for instance, with a love of history, going through history, talking about stuff that they just researched and having a cool conversation about it. That's what an awful lot of podcasting is. And it's really quite delightful. It's. It's great. You know, hey, Dad's from the Crypt is three horror fans talking about something that they love and giving parenting advice, which is brilliant. It's just a brilliant idea. What other medium could you do that in except for podcasting? [00:17:11] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, it's funny because there's another podcast I was recently on called A History According to where they take a movie and they talk about the historical. How historically accurate is this movie in the Times? And, you know, it's a fun little premise. It's. It's mostly tongue in cheek. I mean, they do a little bit of research. Like they did like my all time favorite movies is Glory, you know, the Civil War unit first made of African American soldiers. And it kind of talked about like what was true and what did they embellish and everything. And. But sometimes they do like 300, which again, it's so long ago, you only the history is written by the winners. So it's really hard to determine what was true in that story and what wasn't. But it's interesting. Kind of look at like, you know, which parts of it were stylistically embellished. But yeah, there's. There's a podcast for everything, it seems like now, which is great. [00:18:04] Speaker A: And my little podcast company, one of the things that that is. Is so thrilling is. Is that. Well, I've come to believe that everyone, because everyone has a story, has at least one podcast in them. Now, some people have multiple podcasts, but everyone really, if you sit down and you begin to get under the surface of who they are, and this goes to what you were saying, hearing everybody, because. Yeah, okay, one of the things that has clearly happened is that we ain't hearing each other. Okay, okay. One of the ways to hear each other is to hear each other's stories. And my goal is, hey, as every. As we believe, everyone has a story or one, at least one podcast in them, is to tell each and every one of those stories. [00:19:04] Speaker B: Right? [00:19:08] Speaker A: The. The mission statement is. You know what, Tika? No. Lame is right. [00:19:14] Speaker B: Yes. [00:19:16] Speaker A: It's the idea that it's every one of our obligations, whether you like it or not, to make the world a better place for having been in it. How you do this exactly is. That's up to you, but it really is to make the world a better place. [00:19:31] Speaker B: I mean, to pivot a little bit, because I know one of the things you said you want to talk about was Tony Todd, and he is one of those guys. I think that's. And the reason why I think his legacy is so endearing and he was so, so beloved because he made. He definitely. Some of those guys that always made the world a better place, who always made every movie better, made every appearance. You know, you hear a lot of stories about a lot of people, you know, this and that. You know, sometimes they're having a bad day or something, or they're just known to be difficult. I've never. I've never heard anyone say anything negative about him. And I think. Or when we talked about him on the podcast, he's just such. He's just so many delightful stories. And for a guy who played so many menacing characters and had such a. Who could have such an imposing presence, he just was such a sweetheart to everyone. I never got to meet him in person or at a convention. I guess we just never, like, say he did a lot of the conventions, but I guess for some reason I just never was at the one. But I've heard so many stories from so many people, and it's kind of like in that week that had a lot of darkness for a lot of people to have his light go out, I was like, this is just an opportunity for all of us to kind of shine a little bit more light to the. For the rest of, you know, take a little bit of the light that he took away and kind of add our own a little bit. Be a little bit nicer because, you know, when you're. When you're popular, you're famous, you're in demand, it's so easy to be, you know, get high in your own. But, you know, he seemed like such a willing person to just, you know, take time and talk to anyone and everything, you know, whoever. However, he could brighten someone's day. And I think that's, again, how. How you have a good career In Hollywood is, you know, being a good guy. [00:21:15] Speaker A: As you have been doing. Dad from the Crypt. You've interviewed a lot of people. Yeah, an awful lot of people. Who, who has anyone really, who has delighted you maybe even more than you expected? [00:21:34] Speaker B: Easy. I mean, probably John Kiss here. I mean, that's kind of the easy answer, but it's honest. So when we started dashing the crypt, one of the things I want to do, you know, because we're in this such an interconnected virtual world now that, you know, you can reach out to anybody, you know, through Instagram, or you go sign up for INDB Pro account. And people ask me, like, how do you get these great interviews? Like, I send out, like, dozens of emails, you know, for like, every 50 emails I send out, I might get, like, back one, you know, response. It might be like, oh, he's not available at this time, or whatever. Like, call, talk to us at the beginning of the year. Which is usually code for, you know, fuck off. But. But hearing no is like, okay, that. That I just don't want to do it. That's fine. I'm not going to get, you know, whatever about it. So when I emailed John K's agent and got a response back, so he was the first person we reached out to because, I mean, that was just the natural thing. And, you know, first person I let Sean Kir, you know, voice of the crib keeper, yada, yada, yada. I heard back within, like, a couple hours, and I thought I was being pranked. I was like, there's no way. This is. That was the scene. If only I had known that that was like a rarity. It's kind of like, you know, knocking out the park your first time, but. And then it's one of those things like a dog chasing a car. I was like, wait, how do I do an interview with someone? It never occurred to me, like, how am I going to do this? It was more like figuring if I could, to figure out how or what it's going to be like. So I, like, did a ton of research and I watched other people's interviews, and some people said to watch. I was talking to friends, said to watch, like, the hot ones, where they have, like, guests do, you know, eat hot wings while they're being interviewed and stuff. But to watch his interview style, because he's a very good interviewer. And, like, that's not to try to ask the obvious, obvious questions. You know, do your research, be prepared, go a little deeper. So I did all this research. I. I Found out what his favorite football team was, you know, just to kind of, you know, just to just have a chat, you know. So we had like 40 questions. Me, it was me and Jody. And as you know, John, he is a performer. He did a one man show. He can just talk and talk and talk. So out of 40 questions, I only really got to like five of them because he just kept talking, but in the best way. Not like he's running his mouth, but like I'm just sitting there cracking up. Like he's telling me all these stories. [00:23:58] Speaker A: Half the time thinking, jesus, John, shut the up. Shut up, John. [00:24:02] Speaker B: No, no, it's like, of course, but. [00:24:05] Speaker A: But what if. [00:24:06] Speaker B: Yeah, was like, but he answered all my questions too. On just in the normal flow of him just talking. And it was just. I just sat there like, oh my God. Like, no, this guy is like an iconic performer for many, on many levels, on many things, but he's just like shooting the shit with us and just being hilarious, cracking us up. And, you know, I was so nervous and then just felt like the most natural thing. So shout out to John. [00:24:39] Speaker A: Bravo, John. [00:24:41] Speaker B: But yeah, every interview, like, I'm obviously very nervous for. I did a fantastic interview. I did like three interviews last week. It's just, just the way these things happen. So I interviewed. [00:24:52] Speaker A: Who'd you interview last week? [00:24:54] Speaker B: Yeah, so I interviewed Michael Gornick, who he directed Creep Show 2 and was a longtime friend and producer of George A. Romero. And one thing we talk about, I guess him and George Romero had a sports TV show together that they produced for NBC where they did like stories about athletes, like in the 70s, and the first one was called Juice on Loose, so. And I think it was produced by O.J. simpson. I can't remember the exact details, but I never really thought of George Romero as a. As a sports person. So that was really entertaining. So that was a great interview. I did another one for a woman named Libby Let Low, and she plays a role in the latest installment of vhs. A very memorable performance. Because those movies are anthology movies, they usually move very quickly. You don't have much time to set up a character or for a character to make much of an impression. But she made the very big. She does a really good job with it. And it's one of those things where I'm like, I need to talk. I need to find her, talk to her, because she has an amazing performance. I'm not sure when this episode comes out, but it'll be out next week or so. And then the third one is A movie that premiered. There's a movie that premiered at Chattanooga Film Festival last year that Jody Mondo said it's not horror, but you gotta watch it as soon as it comes out. So I'm like, okay. So it's this movie called Off Ramp. Now, Alan, you know what a juggalo is? Have you heard that term? [00:26:25] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I think so. [00:26:27] Speaker B: It's someone who's like a big fan of the band and sang Clown Posse and they work. Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:26:31] Speaker A: Sure, sure, sure. Yeah. [00:26:32] Speaker B: It's all like subculture. [00:26:34] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:26:34] Speaker B: They made a Juggalo road trip movie and I'm like, okay. I don't quite see how that's my kind of thing, per se. [00:26:42] Speaker A: A Juggalo roadshow movie, road trip, like. [00:26:45] Speaker B: To these guys who are jugglers road tripping to a festival called the Gathering of the Jugglers. It's like a huge festival every year. I was like, okay, sure, I'll check it out. When Jordan Mondo recommended I'll watch it, you know. And I was enthralled by this movie. It is, it is to the 2020s as Easy Rider was to the 60s, that kind of like this is America through a subculture trying to figure out cast, trying to figure out the American dream landscape. It's like very violent, gruesome, but kind of wholesome way. But it's wonderful movie. I. It had me within like the first minute and I was just like. When I, when I was finished, I said, I need. I'm going to watch this the next day or two. I'm going to find this cast and crew. I'm going to talk to them. And I posted about it, how much I enjoyed it on Instagram. I tagged the director and within minutes he messaged me saying, hey, you want to come on your podcast? I was like, well, you beat me to it. [00:27:49] Speaker A: But that's excellent. That, that's the point of the exercise. That is why, that's why it works. It's. You know, when, when you, when you started that first episode of the. Of your dads from the Crip podcast, did you ever envision that you would end up as connected as you are to, to the world that you. [00:28:09] Speaker B: No. So, yeah, so I had like the director and two of the stars. We did an hour long talk and it was fascinating. I love store. You know, you said that everyone has a movie in it. I think every. Sorry. Everyone has a. Has a podcast in them. I think every movie has a podcast. There's a story behind every movie. [00:28:24] Speaker A: Oh, God, yes. [00:28:26] Speaker B: Holy. Which is obviously why I do a podcast about movies, but I want to hear, especially for a smaller indie movie that doesn't. That, you know, hasn't gotten that much recognition that I absolutely loved and I know other people are loving. I want to hear all about, you know, how it came to be, especially something so specific, but also so poignant. Now that's. That's another movie I'm recommending to you, is called Off Ramp. [00:28:51] Speaker A: For sure. I will check that out. Absolutely. I've got some hope. [00:28:55] Speaker B: And if my interview is not out by the time this episode comes out, it'll be off within a couple days, or not within the week. [00:29:04] Speaker A: I'm there. Going back to the EC Comics, what's your impression of the rebirth of EC Comics? [00:29:19] Speaker B: Yeah, I'm really happy it exists. Does it need to exist? It's debatable. I think it's good to. It's one of those things that people that have been collecting EC comics since, you know, the 40s or whatever, you know, nothing new is going to be, you know, really satisfying to them in the same way that the original is. That's just the nature of rebooting anything. But I'm really excited to have new generations. If the. If anything, if it brings recognition to the EC brands and gets people to check out the older ones, then it's done. You know, it's done a job as far as being, you know, a comic book to read. It's there. There's ones I really like, ones I really don't. I. I wish they would me learn some lessons now. I don't know anything about comic books and how quickly they come out before or how. How early they're written before when they come out and all that stuff. I'm assuming this takes, you know, what the turnaround is. [00:30:20] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. [00:30:22] Speaker B: So I know it's like putting train track before a train. The train's always moving. You gotta put track on the train. So I'm hoping they kind of hear some feedback and they make some adjustments, at least in the story editing departments. I think that pretty much the art is always fun. That's always good, interesting. And I like. I love talking about it. I like reading them. I don't think they're inspiring. They're not. Well, like, they're inspiring people to find the old ones. That's great. I don't think they're groundbreaking per se, as the original was, but doesn't. It kind of depends on what they're trying to accomplish. Like I said, I'm glad it exists. I was Talking to someone about when I picked up my last issues because I do get review copies like digital, but I want to support them. So I got a subscription at my local comic book store, but I only picked them up in batches. I'm not picking them up the week of. So last time I was there, I asked the guy, how are they selling? He says, well, it's gone down since the original because the nature of anthology means there's no story, so there's no cliffhanger to like drag people back. So that's the interesting way to think about it. [00:31:33] Speaker A: Yeah, it's the challenge. And. And if you do an issue or two where it's just not compelling, it's is tricky as. As we know. [00:31:46] Speaker B: Right. If anything, I might like the cruel universe ones a little better, I think because they're a little bit more focused where these are kind of all over the place. The. The epithes disc a little bit more all over the place. So it can feel a little scattered. Real cre. Kind of has a lane. It's a very wide lane still. But it goes. [00:32:09] Speaker A: You know, it's kind of the difference between sci fi and horror because sci fi is always trying to tell you something about today in tomorrow's wardrobe. [00:32:20] Speaker B: Right. [00:32:21] Speaker A: And horror is just on a different mission entirely. It's just trying to weird you out. [00:32:25] Speaker B: Yeah. And sci fi can be. Can be sci fi, it can be comedy, it can be many things where. I mean sort of horror can be many things. Many of those things where sci fi is usually a little bit more self contained. I mean, it's still be. There's. It's also a couple different flavors, but far fewer than horror. Am I like mad that mad about them or anything? No, not at all. You know, the. It's. It's got me reading comics. Hopefully gets other people reading comics, but. [00:32:55] Speaker A: It'S what, what's interesting to see in. In the new EC is the variety of voices. Because one thing, alas, about the original ec, it was a rather limited worldview. [00:33:11] Speaker B: Right. Yeah. And I kind of wish they would actually say a little bit more about the authors or something. Or you know, or maybe that. That's just not bad. Maybe that's bad form or something like that. Or. I don't know. [00:33:25] Speaker A: They're artists. [00:33:27] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:33:28] Speaker A: They're. They're creative people creating. They're. They. They're entitled to. To their. To reap the praise. Look, when you put anything out, a creative. Anything creative out into the world, it's. It's no longer yours. [00:33:43] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:33:44] Speaker A: And that's the deal you ha. You have to make with, with the world and with yourself. Hey, if you don't make that deal, you're still going to do it, but you're going to get kicked in the nuts every single time and you're going to take it very personally when really, you know, people will react as they react. But that's the deal when you put stuff out. [00:34:06] Speaker B: Well, and again, moving the conversation to the other topic you want me to talk about with the Mike Vosberg documentary. Like, especially when it comes to like editing something. You know, there's a million to one decisions you can make at any, any point in the film or documentary or whatever you're. Whatever, whatever you create. There's a million one decisions at every turn. And you feel like, you feel like, oh, which is gonna be the right one, which is gonna be wrong. All you can do is just kind of go with your gut, you know, and you know, it's, you're kind of stabbing in the, throwing a dart in the darkness a little bit and hoping it hits. [00:34:41] Speaker A: Be faithful to the story you're trying to tell and, and really let that be the guide. It's. I. You've. Your Vosberg documentary was just at the, at LA Comic Con. [00:34:58] Speaker B: Yeah. So the story behind that was last summer. I. Or is it last year sometime for our second anniversary, I wanted to get you, you, you talked to Mike Vosberg. So I knew you were in contact with him. Mike Vogs was the guy who does all the Tales from the Crypt covers from the TV show. For those of you watching on video, like, you know, like right here when I'm pointing my finger and you and Gil did interview with him. And then, you know me being, you know me, I'm like, well, I want to interview him too, but I'm going to one up you guys. I'm going to go to his house. I talked to him. I, I got his information driving out the. [00:35:37] Speaker A: At the lock can. [00:35:38] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:35:38] Speaker A: What? [00:35:38] Speaker B: Locking out? [00:35:39] Speaker A: Yeah, it's like, my God. [00:35:42] Speaker B: Well, what? Well, because for our anniversary I wanted to get a picture him do a picture of me, Jody and Mondo. And you know, you passed the request along to him and he did such an amazing job. And then he was like, oh, do you want to come out and pick it up in person? I'm like, sure. Wait. And I know me. I'm like, well, can I film it? Can I. You want to do like a show me your. Show me your studio. It's like, oh yeah, I've got tons of art. You Know my house. I can show you. So what's funny was that was the day after I got my first ever tattoo, which is the Crypt Keeper tattoo. So I'm just like, you know, 6 foot 4. I'm a larger person. I've got this, like, bloody tattoo all wrapped up. And, you know, you like, wrap up a tattoo and it's got like, you know, a package of, like, fluid seeping. It's really gross. And I'm like, showing by this door, like, with the film, his house and everything. I'm like, shocked you let me in. And, you know, we just decided to shoot the shit. And I was like, you know what? I'm whatever. I'm just filming with my phone on, like a $10 you gimbal thing. I bought, you know, whatever I get, you know, I could at least use the audio, make a podcast episode out of it, and maybe I'll cut it into something for, you know, YouTube. And I was there for like four hours. It was like, so hot that my phone kept overheating. So we had to get like a pack of ice to cool to keep my phone temperature down. [00:37:10] Speaker A: And it was your own little bordello of blood. [00:37:13] Speaker B: Yeah, it was like a one day, you know, guerrilla filmmaking. And then I was like, I spent like a year. I'm like, well, you know, I got so much stuff here. Let me see what I can do with it. And I enjoy film editing. I think if I was going to be in the film industry, I think I'd want to be an editor again. [00:37:34] Speaker A: Because that's where the real storytelling happens. [00:37:37] Speaker B: Exactly. Because you have all the pieces. You just find. You just find the right order. It's kind of like building a Lego, a Lego tower or something like that. Like, I don't have to make. I don't have to be there on set making decisions or, you know, dealing with the elements or whatever, or you did all the hard work. I'm just kind of putting the puzzle together. And, you know, I've been doing some. I was doing some. A lot of editing with the Dash and the Crypt stuff, and I was like, well, I'm just taking the stuff I'm doing and putting it into a much larger context. I didn't realize how large it would be because, you know, you want to keep it interesting. And then, you know, I want to make it multimedia with all these other pictures of it because it's a very, you know, he does artwork. So I'll put all the art I can in there. Then you have to, like, you know, make sure. It all fits and reti. And time everything correctly. So I spent like nine months or whatever. And some. There were times where I'm like, I don't look at this thing anymore. So I didn't look at it for like a month. You know, I went through a lot of phases. And then, you know, I kind of got to a point where I'm like, I'm done. I think I got exactly how I want it. And then actually I showed it to him, and then I filmed a little bit more because I'm a maniac. So I wanted to do add. Add another ending to it, which, you know, I actually really love how he ended the film. And I was just like, okay, it's done. I'm playing a cap on. [00:38:52] Speaker A: How do you end. How does the film end? [00:38:55] Speaker B: Well, I. I end it with him. So I showed him the video, and then I film his reaction to that draft. I see there's one thing that's missing, and that is you. You're. You're an art of you to put on the poster for this. So I then I taped him drawing the poster for documentary, and I asked him a couple questions and stuff. And then. And then I just kind of did this, like, what you call a time lapse of him. You know, when you saw Season, like, do something really quickly, and I put some classical music over, it just got like a little ode to the art, the. The active creation, artistic creation in the. In the kind of a meta way. So he's. He's drawing the poster for the movie that you're watching. I thought that'd be a cool way to end it. [00:39:49] Speaker A: Did. Did making a movie yourself change the way you see movies? [00:39:55] Speaker B: I mean, this is barely classified as a movie, but, like a home video. But. [00:39:59] Speaker A: But. But you. Then you cut it together. [00:40:03] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:40:05] Speaker A: You edited it. Yeah. [00:40:07] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:40:08] Speaker A: How long is it? [00:40:10] Speaker B: It's an hour. I mean, I could easily cut it. [00:40:12] Speaker A: You made a movie. [00:40:12] Speaker B: You. [00:40:13] Speaker A: You, Jason, you made a movie same as anyone else makes a goddamn movie. It's. It's. It's still you. You took one long piece of film, in essence, and you broke it up into little pieces and rearranged them in parts, same as anybody else. [00:40:29] Speaker B: You made a movie. Yeah. I mean, it definitely makes me appreciate the. The effort that goes into these things. The, you know, the. You know, the kind of make it work kind of thing. Because, you know, you've seen that. You saw a couple of the early drafts, and you gave me a lot of notes on, like, how to, you know, improve it and Also very thankful for that. [00:40:49] Speaker A: Oh, I. I just thought you should put yourself. You should be more present in it. [00:40:54] Speaker B: Yeah. So, yeah, so I saw a whole new opening and everything. I've always been a student of film. I took, like, two film. I took a film class in high school, two film classes in college. For some reason, I never thought I could actually get into filmmaking. It's one of those things, like, if I go back in the time machine, I'll be like, get yourself down to Hollywood and go do something, young man. But I've always been the person where I like music. I just don't have a sense of rhythm or anything. So it's like I can emulate a riff on a guitar, but like a video game where I'm just like, okay, you press this button and that button and that button in the sequence to do a special move. That's how I play music. I don't have a sense of a rhythm or. I can't. I can't. You can play two notes, and I can't tell you if they're in the same key or anything. I have, like, no musical talents for film. I feel like I have. I'm a little bit more. But it's also the same kind of thing where I can appreciate it. I don't know if I could write or direct something, per se, but I feel like I can deconstruct it and reconstruct it. And that's kind of what, you know, whatever form of film criticism on a podcast I do is kind of, you know, my thing. That's why. And that's actually what I got out of those film classes that I took was how to be an active watcher of movies. So to be. So you can be actively watching something or passively watching something. And, you know, when you're actively watching, you're thinking about where the camera is, what kind of the shot is, what the music is, what the lighting is, where people are in relationship to each other. How are these actors connecting all those things you're kind of actively taking part in, where, you know, other times sit back, have a beer and watch, you know, a comedy and laugh your ass off. Both are completely valid ways. But, you know, usually I'm watching a new movie, I'm watching it more actively, depending on the setting. That's what those classes really taught me how to do. [00:42:43] Speaker A: You're proving your. You're proving yourself wrong. The, The. The. The old. You thought you, You, You. You couldn't. You couldn't cut it in this world. And, And. Or get into this world and. And the new you is. Is demonstrating remarkable resilience to this world and to. Yeah, you're. You. You are in this world. You're. You're. You're. [00:43:05] Speaker B: I'm in. I'm in a world. I don't know which world it is. [00:43:08] Speaker A: But, you know, but that whole world has completely fractured. Yeah, it. It's not. It's not what it was. The separation between that, you know, between the Hollywood world and. And everyone else is kind of gone. And in a sense, I think a lot of people are beginning to recognize that everyone's a star now, really and truly, for better and worse. But, you know, it's a numbers game, and I think the good outweighs the bad. It's just how it is. [00:43:49] Speaker B: Well, you had that. You had your conversation with Gil about. In. It turned into, like, him telling all these amazing projects that he's got in the cooker, and that made me so happy to hear about that. And I talked to him in a couple months, and it was around the Jewish New Year, so I'm like, you know, I'm gonna call him, wish him a happy New Year and everything, and we just chatted and everything, and it was just so delightful to hear, you know, that spark of. That kind of spark that was kind of back in his. In his voice a little bit. And part of me was like, you know, what if. If I didn't have a family that, you know, I didn't have, like, pick up my kids and drop them off from school every day, I'd say, you know what, Gil? I'll let me be your associate producer or, you know, whatever you need me to. Need someone to be and go. Go off to wherever. Like Bulgaria, wherever you're going to go film, you know, in another. In another timeline, I could. I could do that, but that's just not my timeline at this moment. [00:44:39] Speaker A: At this moment. [00:44:41] Speaker B: At this moment. Yeah, but you're. [00:44:43] Speaker A: You're a young guy. [00:44:44] Speaker B: How. [00:44:44] Speaker A: How old are you, Jason? [00:44:46] Speaker B: Almost 44. [00:44:48] Speaker A: Oh, my God. You got. You have several more careers in you yet. [00:44:52] Speaker B: Yeah, well, NASA started a new job last summer, so. Which, you know, is my other career, but for. [00:45:00] Speaker A: For the moment. [00:45:01] Speaker B: Yeah, for the moment. I mean, I said, you know, who knows? But I do have. I've always wanted to be on, like, a real. Like a. An actual film set, like, like, while something's like, film. Like, I've been. I went to a taping of a sitcom rather recently, actually, but I just thought it'd be cool to just be on A movie set and just kind of see it all happen. [00:45:24] Speaker A: We'll have to make that happen for you, Jason. [00:45:27] Speaker B: Yeah, Never know. [00:45:28] Speaker A: And, and, and, you know, a chair with your name on it, who knows? [00:45:36] Speaker B: But, you know, I, I just love, you know, watching new movies and being surprised and sometimes disappointed and, you know, having something to talk about or listening to, having some other people to listen about because I love. Again, there's this movie. There's a story behind the movie. It's so funny. Whenever I go to a movie with my wife, first thing I do as soon as the movie's over is I open my phone and look up IMDb so I can read all the trivia about the movie. Or if I'm watching a TV show and I'm like. So I have to remind myself not to look at. I don't get any spoilers or anything. Not to look up the trivia of the shows. I have to wait till I finish the entire series before I look things up because I, I just like the stories behind movies. [00:46:17] Speaker A: Yeah. The, the creative process of, of making these things is, can be sometimes Deloitte Blood even more horrifying than whatever we put on the screen. [00:46:27] Speaker B: Right. But even like a lot of the classics, like I've seen Jaws some more times. I can count. So I'm at the point where I'm like, I'd rather watch a special feature which are unfortunately a dying art, it seems. [00:46:38] Speaker A: Well, yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, it's funny when they, they used to have to hire a film crew to do all that backstage stuff. Now everyone's doing it on their phones. [00:46:49] Speaker B: Yeah, it's like that. That's probably the career I would, I would take. I'd be the one that films the behind the scene things of a movie. I make the movie about the movie. [00:46:59] Speaker A: Sounds like a podcast. [00:47:02] Speaker B: Yeah. Did you see another movie Depot on your list is called in the Violent Nature again? [00:47:10] Speaker A: No, I haven't seen it yet. But I'm not really a horror guy. I'm, I think either. [00:47:16] Speaker B: So this one is like your basic Friday 13th movie, like your basic killer in the woods, except in following the victims, it follows him. It's not his POV POV per se. It's like over his shoulder and he's just kind of watching him walking around the forest. He hears a noise. He turns, the noise follows the noise. Kills some people, keeps walking. Here's another noise, goes over here, starts, you know, it's. But if they do it, in a way, it's like a Terence Malik or Steven Sonberg. Kind of movie. Like. [00:47:48] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, it's from Malevolence is perspective. [00:47:51] Speaker B: Yeah, but not even. Yeah, but it's just kind of like this is just what he is. He's just like. He's like a shark. [00:47:56] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. There's no. There's no characterization happening. [00:48:00] Speaker B: Right. I mean, they think of like a slight backstory, but yeah, that's all he does. But it's just. But it's almost like. But it's relaxing. That's the funny part. It's just. It's like going through nature, going for a walk. It's kind of just. There's like a rhythm to it that's just like kind of soothing even. This is like horrific monster. It's. [00:48:15] Speaker A: Yeah, it's some occasional bloodletting and screaming, but aside from that. Yeah, it's a nature. [00:48:19] Speaker B: I really enjoyed it, but it just came out on Blu Ray or home release and they actually filmed most of it and they like decided they realized it wasn't good enough or just like there was too many issues with what they had. So they ended up redoing the entire movie. But they put on the finished one, all the behind the scenes footage of them making and all the issues they had because it pretty much rained the entire time. And that kind of like made it impossible to like do 90 of the things they want to do. So there's. So there's a. There's like almost as long as the movie of behind the scene footage of all. All the troubles they had trying to make the movie the first time. And then they scrapped it and redid it. So I thought that was very entertaining. [00:48:59] Speaker A: I'm telling you, Jason, there's a whole podcast in this. It's. It's. The material exists, right? What you do is review it, find it, review it, talk about it. Boom, man, There's. There's. There's a pot. That's a podcast. [00:49:12] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:49:13] Speaker A: Huge podcast. Well, by the time Custard and touched on what. We'll give you a call shortly about that. [00:49:20] Speaker B: There you go. No, there's another podcast. If I was gonna do another podcast, I want to do one about 90s movies because, you know, that's my. That's kind of my era, you know, when I was, you know, my teenager years, whatnot. Which again, it feels weird calling that an Eric when you, you know, that's when you grew up. But that's like. They're just. There's a lot of underappreciated movies from that decade. I think people, especially for the horror community, look down on that decade a little bit. They just, I think, I think because of CGI and stuff, people became much more reliant on style over substance. So I mean obviously there's some classic Scream and Candyman as we talked about and you know, a good handful of others. Demon Night, of course, but there's like so much more in there and it's, it's interesting to look back at that time. The kind of pre Internet or dawning of the Internet era in kind of a simpler time before you know, 2000s kind of shook everything up. [00:50:22] Speaker A: We've. Well, we've, we've covered horror Then and now. I guess the last thing on my agenda was parenting. Then and now. What, what have now? How old your kids? [00:50:34] Speaker B: So I have my twin 10 year olds and my oldest is turned 19 in September. [00:50:40] Speaker A: You have a 19 year old? Yeah, I'm not sure that I was aware of that. [00:50:46] Speaker B: We talk about passing, but yeah, yeah, 19 year old. [00:50:49] Speaker A: Yeah, I think I, I just, I've just always been. Been aware of. Of your twins. [00:50:52] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:50:57] Speaker A: Have. How have you changed as a parent? Have you changed as a parent? How has parenting changed you? [00:51:03] Speaker B: Yeah, it's the thing about kids is they don't give a. About you. They, they. They are the most selfish people in the world, so. And that pisses me off sometimes where I'm like, I just go home from work, I want to watch the game or I just need a couple minutes. They don't care. They want what they want. They have needs, babies, man, they're. They can't do anything for themselves. So I think it, it's, it's a constant like having to. I'm making myself sound like kind of a selfish here, but it's really taking yourself out of. It's really about ego. And I don't mean that like I feel like I'm better than everyone, but it's like having to think about putting yourself in their empathy. I guess it might be better word learning to be more empathetic to them and understanding and you know, I think when I, when you have twins, even if they are good sleepers, the chances that they're both gonna be good sleepers at the same time is pretty rare. And my kids weren't necessarily good sleepers, I'll put it that way. [00:52:24] Speaker A: That'll change your life. [00:52:26] Speaker B: So what I, what I just had to realize was I have to give up on sleeping when I want to sleep and sleep when they're asleep, even if it's the middle of the day. And that was a hard and that, like, as a metaphor, was a hard thing for me to do. It's like what I want doesn't really matter per se. I mean, to a degree. And there's ways to, you know, work with your partner and figure that out, but it's kind of, you know, they're sleeping, I'm sleeping. I don't care if it's the middle of the day. I need to get my sleep. It's kind of. It's kind of the giving over control. Giving over, like, I like control, but giving over. [00:53:08] Speaker A: What's the greater good? [00:53:10] Speaker B: Accepting your powerlessness to the. To your children. [00:53:13] Speaker A: Yes. Yes, yes, yes. Yeah. [00:53:15] Speaker B: Like, kind of. Kind of like the 12 steps. You are powerless over your. Over your children. [00:53:20] Speaker A: You committed to a decision that's bigger than you. [00:53:23] Speaker B: Yes, yes, exactly. And it's more. And it's. It's more like, you know, in the. In the relationship, you can negotiate things. You can, like, you know, talk things through. You can't do that with a kid. [00:53:36] Speaker A: Although they'll negotiate everything with you. They'll negotiate everything with you. [00:53:41] Speaker B: Like my. Especially my. My daughter, now she's 10, going on 16. She has the excuse for everything and argument for everything. And, you know, if I try to put my. The more I try to put my foot down, the harder she digs in. So, like, yeah, it's. It's. It's a major exercise in mindfulness. And, you know, sometimes it's not. It also realizes that sometimes it's not about the thing that she's talking about. It's about really about something else. And I go to my. I turn to my wife. Like, you know, afterwards, I'm like, am I. I don't know if I'm allowed to ask this, but is she being hormonal? And she. She's like, yes, she's definitely 100%. So that parenting's hard as long as you're not hitting your kids. I give you. I give you credit, and trust me, I felt that inclination. I have not acted on it, but I felt where that place comes from, the anger. But, you know, and I would be surprised if anyone has never felt that at all as a parent. If you don't feel like. If you've never at least experienced the taste of where that comes from, then I don't know if you're engaged enough with your kids now, if going through with it is a whole other thing. But I think, you know, it's hard. It's really, really hard. But it is amazing, too. Getting a hug from a child is the Best feeling in the world. [00:55:17] Speaker A: Watching them succeed. [00:55:19] Speaker B: Much of this succeed. Seeing them smile after performing. Teaching them, teaching them a lesson to have them actually follow through on the lesson. You know, people always, like, talk about, you know, like, is my kid gonna be xyz? Are they gonna be like this or that? I'm like, I just want my kids to be a good person. The rest will fall in line. I don't care how good. I mean, I want them to have good grades, but, like, I'd rather them try and, and not get and, you know, maybe not hit the mark on something than not have the fortitude to try at all. That, to me is more important is having the confidence and fortitude to try and fail. Then never try. [00:56:02] Speaker A: Oh, really? Truly. Failure teaches everything. [00:56:05] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:56:06] Speaker A: Success teaches nothing huge. All successful teaches is that your doesn't smell. And that's the wrong message. That's. That's wrong. You're. You might have succeeded, but your still smells and, and that. And now you're going to go and really things up. But failure. All right, now you begin to figure out how not to fail again. [00:56:26] Speaker B: Well, it's more. And then I remember easily into my twenties, how I learned to say I'm sorry or apologize or take ownership over my mistakes. That was. That took me a really, really long time. And that's, you know, it's. It's a thing that you can model, you can talk about it, but, you know, it's. You have to kind of fail enough times on your own to really get it through your head. [00:56:53] Speaker A: Best thing for you. [00:56:55] Speaker B: Yeah, no, alas. Yeah. I mean, that's, you know, some database. Let your kids fail sometimes, more times often than not. So that way they can learn or at least, like, guide them, but, you know, let. Allow them to not succeed. [00:57:11] Speaker A: I think that's of all the parenting advice you've given over the course of all the episodes. I think that's the best piece of parenting advice, Jason. And on that bombshell, I'm going to say, God, thank you so much for being willing to turn around after we had, I think, a great conversation about those three DC comics to spend some good face time, and we actually got a chance to catch up and talk about life. [00:57:46] Speaker B: We've been podcasting for like an hour and 45 minutes already. [00:57:50] Speaker A: Yeah. Who says that podcasting is life? They're not wrong, for sure. It certainly is mine and it's becoming more and more of yours. [00:58:01] Speaker B: Definitely. Definitely. Yeah. Thanks for having me. [00:58:05] Speaker A: Thank you for sitting in. And it's been such a hectic week. This is Friday as we're recording it for release on Tuesday. But but it's been the perfect way to cap off what I don't know for me is what's been a terrific week. This was putting a bow on it. Thank you, Jason. [00:58:23] Speaker B: Yeah, and I wish everyone has a great Thanksgiving. [00:58:27] Speaker A: And from this point of view of podcast, thank you so much. The how not to Make a Movie podcast is executive produced by me, Alan Katz, by Gil Adler, and by Jason Stein. Our artwork was done by the amazing Jody Webster and Jason. Jody, along with Mando, are all the hosts of the fun and informative Dads from the Crip podcast, followed up for what my old pal the Crypt Keeper would have called Terror. Terrific Crypt content.