S3E42: The Next Wave

[00:00:00] Speaker A: This podcast is a collaboration between costart and Touchstone Productions and the Dads from the Crypt podcast. [00:00:05] Speaker B: You never loved me. I now see what I should have seen years ago. You don't respect me. I'm not a human being to you. I'm a prop or a toy to be played with until it breaks. Well, guess what, bucko? This toy is broken and is through with your shit. [00:00:38] Speaker A: Hello and welcome to another episode of the how not to make a movie podcast. I'm Alan Katz. One of the things that we care about deeply here at the podcast is the future of movies and the movie business. We love finding and mentoring young talent, but also we love mentoring and helping talent that's been fighting the good fight and making great movies and shorts for years, but without the money and acclaim they and their work deserve. So today, im going to introduce you to two talented filmmakers who really do represent the next wave of filmmakers and filmmaking talent. The only thing standing between them and success is a break. I met Leah hn Philpot and Jacob Layton Burns when Gil and I were guests at the 2023 Chattanooga Film Festival. Leah and Jacob screamed, hell hath no fury. Leah stars in it. She's terrific. And Jacob wrote the script. It's very funny. And he was its director of photography. Well, it turned out that Leah and Jacob were both huge fans of tales from the crypt, so the whole thing turned into a kind of mutual admiration society. I just met up with them both again at this year's North Hollywood Film Festival, where they were screening still more work. Can I tell you everything I saw was fucking brilliant. No kidding. The next wave of moviemakers are here, and movie making is going to be in great hands for the foreseeable future. Alas, even in the best of times, the movie business is not for the faint of heart. It's a brutal business filled with monsters, monster sized egos, as this podcast has described on multiple occasions. My old boss, Joel Silver, comes to mind. But it also remains filled with really passionate artists who couldn't, wouldn't, and probably shouldn't do anything else because they're really good at movie making. Really, really good. Case in point, Leah H. N. Philippett and Jacob Layton Burns. [00:02:42] Speaker C: There she is. [00:02:44] Speaker B: Hi. [00:02:46] Speaker A: And only electric in blue. [00:02:50] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:02:53] Speaker A: And don't you know it? [00:03:01] Speaker B: Yeah. Despite making sure that this was set up 3 hours ago, it still wouldn't work when it was time. [00:03:09] Speaker A: We only ever think we have the technology. The technology always has us. [00:03:14] Speaker C: Absolutely. [00:03:16] Speaker A: So I'm so thrilled to have to have you to get to have a conversation with you both. When I saw you both, we were just discussing it, Jacob. It was three weeks ago, probably about. [00:03:30] Speaker C: Three weeks, I think. Yeah. [00:03:31] Speaker A: Yeah. Boy, it feels like an eternity ago. As I will have explained in my intro, we met up at the North Hollywood film Festival, where you had a short and a feature. [00:03:49] Speaker C: Two shorts. [00:03:50] Speaker A: Two shorts. Yeah. I knew I would fuck that up. Two shorts. And I saw. That's right. Because I saw them both. That's right. [00:03:59] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:03:59] Speaker A: And I got to say, they blew me away. Wow. No, no. I take that back. Fucking wow. [00:04:13] Speaker C: That's an honor to hear that. [00:04:14] Speaker A: I first met these guys, these guys at the Chattanooga Film Festival, and the film that you had there was. Was that hell hath no fury. [00:04:29] Speaker C: Correct? [00:04:30] Speaker A: Yeah. And it's a corker. It's this kick in the ass reminder that there is this incredible pool of filmmaking talent, storytelling talent out there beyond the Los Angeles city limits, and it is struggling to get seen. The. Well, we're going to talk today about that struggle to get seen, to take the idea, and to find the audience, because it's. The dream is if you can get a big enough audience, then people with money will look at you and say, hey, you know how to attract an audience. What else you got? And that's. It's that little Watusi that we're all trying to pull off. Now, Leah, you started in Newfoundland. It's a beautiful part of Canada, but it's kind of a more remote part. [00:05:47] Speaker B: Of Canada, middle of nowhere. [00:05:52] Speaker A: It's kind of a hard place to come from, isn't it? I mean, I grew up in Baltimore, and Baltimore was a city, but it wasn't New York, it wasn't Boston. It wasn't Philadelphia, even. Yeah, it was Baltimore, and it was real blue collar. And when I went to New York, I didn't brag about coming from Baltimore because, as I would always be reminded, I'm a hick. So I asked that question as a hick relative to the rest of the world that I grew up in. Was that a hardship? [00:06:44] Speaker B: Hmm. I think that the hardest thing about being from Newfoundland is I don't think anyone is born there and wants to leave there. It is God's country. It's beautiful. You just breathe better there. But, yeah, it's kind of hard to have a career in the film industry in Newfoundland. There is a film industry there, shows film there, parts of movies filmed there, sometimes entire features filmed there, but not enough to stay there and have it be your bread and butter. So if you want to be a working actor, the chances of doing that in Newfoundland are slim to none. [00:07:25] Speaker C: You. [00:07:28] Speaker A: Did you. Did you pop out of the womb? You want in the singing dance? [00:07:35] Speaker B: Not exactly. I was actually a very quiet child. Yeah. My report cards, even in grade school, they used to say Leah's very pleasant class. Participated more. [00:07:51] Speaker A: Were you a jock in any way? I mean, your dad was a hockey player? He's the hockey hall of fame. He's Ed Philpott. He's. Wow. He's got a man. He's got a whole fascinating career. [00:08:04] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. His. His stats sound like a video game, for sure, but he never put me. He never put me in hockey. I think he should have because, yeah, I was an athlete. Put me in figure skating, which I thoroughly enjoyed. But because he also was an RCMP officer, Canadian Mountie. We moved a lot similar to the military. So when we moved to a town that required me to get up at five in the morning if I wanted to continue figure skating, I was no longer a figure skater. [00:08:32] Speaker A: Let me just go back one. One half step. Excuse me. Before your dad became a mountie. [00:08:39] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:08:39] Speaker A: Uh, he got an offer to play for the Toronto Maple Leafs farm club. [00:08:45] Speaker B: That is accurate. [00:08:46] Speaker A: He actually had a chance to go full on pro. [00:08:50] Speaker B: Yes. [00:08:51] Speaker A: Yeah, he was. He was that good? [00:08:53] Speaker B: Very much so. Yeah. [00:08:55] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Hey, you know, I do my research. [00:08:58] Speaker B: Yeah. Anyone who knows my father's career still talks about it today. It was very, very impressive hockey career. The thing was that back then, you couldn't play for a year or two and make millions of dollars. That wasn't the way of the world back then. And they played him so young that at a very early age, he started to have problems with his knees and his back. He was, I think, 14 years old when he was playing with the men. So by the time that offer came, was already having some physical issues and he knew he wouldn't last long, and he wanted to raise a family and be able to support that family. So he turned them down. He turned down the Toronto Maple Leafs. [00:09:43] Speaker A: And continued being a cop. Was kinder, gentler. Work. [00:09:51] Speaker B: On the knees, anyway. Yeah. [00:09:56] Speaker A: All right, so when did this mania take hold of you? [00:10:03] Speaker B: Yeah. So my parents put me in dance in grade one, but I never found a dance group until grade five. And in grade five, I became a clog dancer, and I just rapidly jumped to the advanced class and then the show group. And what ended up touring with the group in. In Ontario that I was part of, and I was. It was a group of ladies and I was a little kid. There was only one other kid. The two of us were kind of the little ones that stood in the front of it. And then we moved with fluffy crinolines and all. And then we moved back to Newfoundland, and I was the only clog dancer in Newfoundland. So when there were any local events and they needed. [00:10:51] Speaker A: That sounds like the title of a movie. [00:10:57] Speaker B: I don't know if that's true today, but back then it was. And so people would ask me to be kind of the entertainment at local events in between bigger acts and stuff. There was a Miss teen gander pageant, and I performed there. That was televised and stuff. So that was what got me out of my shell anyhow. And that same year that I started Clog dancing was when we started public speaking. And I think I won the public speaking contest. [00:11:29] Speaker A: Do you remember what it was like coming out of your shell? [00:11:38] Speaker B: I mostly remember my parents reaction to it because my fifth grade teacher misses Brestmeyer. Wonderful, wonderful teacher. She called home to tell my parents that I had won a speaking contest. And I was in the kitchen when my mom got the call, and I can still see her on the phone. She said, wait, my. Leah, are you sure you called the right number? My mom didn't even know I had written a speech. And actually it was about figure skating, but, yeah, I don't know. That year, everything changed, I think, to a bit of a humorous tidbit of my background is that my parents had my hair cut very short for my childhood. And until around grade four or five, I think most people thought I was a boy. And so I think people just didn't gravitate towards me, and I didn't really mind. I was very creative and could entertain myself, but I didn't have a big group of friends or anything like that because I don't think anyone knew what to make of me. But then when my hair grew out, then I had more attention that I didn't necessarily want, didn't know what to do with. But it all kind of came at the same time in grade five and then in grade seven, that's when the acting bug bit, because my brother Ryan, who is much older than me, was already an actor on the stage. And I remember seeing his first show, and he was just brilliant. And I just thought the only thing that could be better than watching him up there might be to be up there with him. And I joined the drama club that year, and two years later, I decided it was what I was going to do with my life. And I've never changed that path. [00:13:37] Speaker A: It was always there and always who you were. It just needed the right circumstances to spring. [00:13:44] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, definitely. [00:13:48] Speaker A: And yeah, it's now nothing to be done. Nothing be done with. You just put her in movies now. Jacob, you are from Oklahoma City? [00:14:04] Speaker C: Yeah, for a bit. I actually originally was the first part of my life to lived in Missouri. A few different towns in Missouri, but I've spent most of my life in Oklahoma, Oklahoma City particularly, but currently I'm in Tulsa. [00:14:16] Speaker A: What part of Missouri did you grow up? [00:14:19] Speaker C: I was born in Kansas City, but my parents kind of moved around a lot. So the town I most remember, there's a couple of towns. There's one. There's bland, Missouri. Literally just called Bland, Missouri. Small town. And then you can't write this shit. Yeah, yeah. I could tell you a whole story about that town, but. [00:14:41] Speaker A: Well, since we're talking about it, go for it. [00:14:45] Speaker C: I remember as a kid in beautiful bland, Missouri, Bland was founded. I learned the story. It was founded by a guy named Richard Bland. And he was. He made his fortune mining silver. And so his nickname became Silver Dick. And in order to celebrate and commemorate this, this man who founded this town, bland, Missouri, created a celebration called Silver Dick Days. [00:15:20] Speaker B: And again, you can't write this. [00:15:23] Speaker C: So there's bland, Missouri. I don't know if silver dictates are still going on or what's going on. [00:15:28] Speaker A: Out there, but was there at least a teensy bit of irony in the town fathers choosing to call it? Okay, we know it's funny, but fuck everybody. Okay. [00:15:41] Speaker C: They seemed pretty sincere at the time. I was very young, so some of that went over my head, but everybody seemed pretty sincere about it. [00:15:50] Speaker A: Not so bland and bland. [00:15:52] Speaker C: Right. But then I spent a lot of my. Most of my childhood split in Joplin, Missouri, which is kind of on the border of Oklahoma and Missouri. I don't have any funny stories about Joplin. [00:16:10] Speaker A: Oh, damn. [00:16:15] Speaker B: It. [00:16:16] Speaker A: So. And again, having grown up in a kind of boonies myself, what was it like growing up in your partner, the boonies? [00:16:28] Speaker C: It was interesting, you know, we found ways to keep ourselves entertained. Me and my brother were. I mean, it kind of started with my dad. He was a big movie buff. And so we were kind of introduced to a wide range of movies at a pretty young age. Younger than. [00:16:46] Speaker A: Do you recall the first movie he showed you? The first movie? What was the first movie either you ever saw or that you recall seeing? [00:16:56] Speaker C: I. It's hard to say, but my first, like, earliest movie go at, like, actually going to a theater experience that I remember. I think if you've seen my films or know me. I feel like it explains a lot, but there was a drive in theater in the Joplin area, and I was very young, and our parents took us to see, it was, it was a triple feature. And they assumed, you know, me and my brother were still young. They assumed we'd fall asleep, you know, during the first movie, and then they could leave or whatever. But of course, like, we were just enamored by it and were up the whole time. But the, the three films were. Oh, my goodness, now I'm going blank on it. What was the first 1 second movie was Kindergarten cop with Arnold Schwarzenegger, Danny DeVito. Yeah, the dream team. And then the third movie was Edward Scissorhands. And, boy, what was the first movie that. I know. Yeah, it was a really weird. [00:18:05] Speaker B: I think that's what I can't remember. They were not related in any way. [00:18:09] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, it was super weird. The first one was definitely like a kid Schindler's list. [00:18:17] Speaker A: That would be the triple. The triple bill from. [00:18:21] Speaker C: But I think it cemented my personality, I think, a little bit, that series of movies. But yeah, no, we, and some other movies I definitely remember my dad showing us very young age were like the Abbott and Costello movies. A lot of the universal monster movies, like those are, those are the ones that I watched over and over again. Plus, you know, like Spielberg and Tim Burton movies and stuff like that. Those were all very big in my life at that age, growing up, and I think kind of helped spark what I've become. [00:18:53] Speaker A: You connected to horror? [00:18:55] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. Interesting. Like, I, to a certain extent, I liked the old universal monster movies and stuff like that, and like, older horror movies. I didn't particularly like more recent stuff. It was too scary for me. [00:19:10] Speaker A: So what did you like about the old universal stuff? [00:19:16] Speaker C: I don't know. I was always very drawn to the monsters themselves. I always loved there. I'm not sure any monsters have been designed better since then. They're just really iconic and just the perfect. [00:19:32] Speaker A: Which was your favorite monster. [00:19:37] Speaker C: Growing up? The Wolfman was always my favorite. I loved Lon Chaney Junior. I loved that look. I dressed up as the wolf man as the kid for Halloween. Family. The opera was another one I liked. And the short film I just made when shadows lay Darkest is actually, the title itself is actually a very obscure reference to Phantom of the opera, the long, shany silent version. There's a part in the movie where it's silent movie, so it has the titles come up, title screens come up to tell you dialogue or just set the scene and one of them, there's a scene earlier in the day and then it cuts to nighttime. So in between the day scene and the night scene, a title card comes up that says, when the shadows lay darkest. And that always stuck with me. I thought that was just like, just a great name for a movie. And, yeah, just so whenever it came time to make this short that we just did, which is proof of concept for a feature, but that was, I needed a very striking, interesting title. And that, that one has always stuck with me as something that, it stuck with me. So I thought maybe it stick with other people too. [00:20:53] Speaker A: Sure. Makes, makes total sense. When did you start making movies yourself? [00:21:01] Speaker C: Very young. The first film, quote unquote, I made was on a vhs camcorder that we borrowed from some, some family friends. And me and my brother made this Godzilla ripoff called Fifi. We used Godzilla action figures and tried to do miniature work as best we could. I think I was in 6th grade at the time, so I was probably like eleven or twelve or something like that. My brother is a little younger, so if you look hard enough, you can find it on YouTube. I won't tell you where it is, but you can for it yourself. [00:21:41] Speaker A: Okay, get, get going, everybody. [00:21:43] Speaker C: Yeah. Treasure hunt. [00:21:48] Speaker A: What are you listening to this for you, you could be tracking that down. [00:21:51] Speaker C: You could be looking at Fifi. [00:21:53] Speaker B: All of a sudden, Fifi on YouTube is going to get a million hits. [00:21:57] Speaker A: Could you spell that, please? [00:22:01] Speaker C: F I. F I. [00:22:04] Speaker A: Now you've done it. So it all started with Fifi Phi. [00:22:14] Speaker C: It's true. It's true. And after that, we actually, our dad was very proud of it. And he was actually a minister at the time, a pastor there in Joplin, and he. [00:22:31] Speaker A: After, what flavor? [00:22:34] Speaker C: Southern Baptist. [00:22:35] Speaker A: Oh, gosh. So you grew up southern, you grew up a southern Baptist? [00:22:39] Speaker C: Uh, yeah. [00:22:41] Speaker A: Well, okay, well, that's, that's a whole other line of questioning. How, how do you feel growing up a southern Baptist impacted your, your choice of, of a genshara? [00:22:58] Speaker C: That's a great question. I really thought about that. I mean, I, the southern bad. This life is a very unique way to grow up. And especially being a preacher's kid is even weirder. So I just spent a lot of time at church. I actually watched a lot of movies in church. My elementary school was across the street from the church that he was at. And so I would, a lot of times after school, I would just walk over there and you'll spend, you know, rest of his time at work there. And then we'd come home together, so I'd spend that time watching movies there. So, yeah, I mean, I think there's. It's. It's. I don't know. I'd have to think about how it's truly impacted. [00:23:41] Speaker A: Well, back to that question, either today or another day, but, yeah. Leo, do you remember the first. What was the first role, acting role you got? Do you remember what that was? [00:23:56] Speaker B: I don't know if I'm going to say the name of this correctly, but it was in grade seven, and I believe the play was called American Graffito. And ironically, even though I now looked like a girl, I booked the part of Rey because they needed a tough guy who could also tap dance, because the premise was that something goes awry and everybody blames Ray because, of course, the bad guy in school did it, and he has to prove his alibi. And he was at dance class. So my scene, I had to clear the teacher's desk of all their items and jump up, do a time step. [00:24:42] Speaker A: And there was a lack of tap dancing tough guys in Newfoundland. [00:24:47] Speaker B: Yeah, definitely a lack there. Yeah, I was. I was. And I never. I never had a design. It was perfect for me, really, because I never had the desire. I loved the movie grease, but I never really had a desire to be a pink lady. I was like, what's the point of being grease if you're not Danny Izuko? You're not Kinnicki. So here was my chance to be the guy with the leather jacket, and that was my first role. [00:25:13] Speaker A: What was the first role that you felt like, okay, I'm an actor. Okay, let's not presume. Was there a moment. Okay, you said there was a moment where you decided, okay, I want to be an actor, but was there a moment when. Between the, okay, I want to be an actor when I grow up, and. And when you suddenly look at yourself and go, I'm an actor. And it doesn't even necessarily require that you get employed. It's a mindset. [00:25:52] Speaker B: Yeah. Luckily, I think that also came early, which I think is necessary along the journey of staying in it. But in grade twelve, I was in the musical fiddler on the roof, and I played Yenta, the old matchmaker. [00:26:11] Speaker A: And for our final, I have to ask this question. [00:26:15] Speaker B: Yes. [00:26:16] Speaker A: Okay. Where was this. Where was this performance of fiddler? [00:26:20] Speaker B: This was in St. John's, Newfoundland. [00:26:23] Speaker A: Oh, gosh. Oh, this. I wish I could have seen that production. [00:26:28] Speaker C: It was a really great production. [00:26:32] Speaker A: Were there any jews in the house? [00:26:34] Speaker B: So that's what I was actually going to say, that's what brought me to the moment on our performance. The jewish community came out and watched. And then they were so blown away by it that a group of them came to our high school, asked to have us gather in the gymnasium to kind of give a speech. And the lady who was talking singled me out. And she said, with tears in her eyes, she said, I just want to thank you for bringing me back. My grandmother, she is no longer with us. But that night I felt like she was there and she was there through you. You were so much like her. And me and my family just had a wonderful time at the show, and your performance was a blessing to our household. And I was just, like. [00:27:30] Speaker A: I ask because it's such a cultural show. [00:27:34] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:27:35] Speaker A: And this is a culture that it's kind of foreign to most jews because it's just, it's old world shtetl, ashkenazi jewish world. [00:27:52] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:27:54] Speaker A: And I grew up. I grew up in a, in a, surrounded by jewish culture. I grew up in a jewish suburb of Baltimore public high school. 90% of the people, the kids who went there were jewish, even on the jewish holidays. Even the non jewish kids didn't show up because what was the point? [00:28:12] Speaker B: Right? Yeah. Not at my school. [00:28:14] Speaker A: So this was not a culture that your. That anyone you grew up with knew anything about? [00:28:24] Speaker B: No, not a thing. [00:28:26] Speaker A: So you have. How did you feel about these characters? Were they, were they just old world, foreign characters? What. How did you perceive them? [00:28:45] Speaker B: I don't think I looked at it that way. I think I gravitate towards characters that are the furthest from me. I think that's why I enjoy doing what I do. And that was the first role that I had that was so wildly different from myself. So I had to study not only the script, but the religion and look at other performances and didn't convert, did you? And I was raised Catholic, so. [00:29:19] Speaker A: It. [00:29:19] Speaker B: Was very, very different from anything I knew. But I felt like I genuinely, for that time period of a few months, became a part of that community. And that was confirmed when the community came and spoke to us at our school. [00:29:37] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's you, you. [00:29:41] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:29:43] Speaker A: You crossed a high bar. Yeah, we're at a very high bar. Because I would think that the community would, would walk in the door thinking, oh, Christ. Okay, you're going to tell us what Jews are, are you? Okay. [00:29:59] Speaker B: Right. [00:30:00] Speaker A: And to discover actually the human link instead. [00:30:06] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:30:07] Speaker A: That is it really. The jewishness is really. That's the icing the cake is really just human beings yeah. [00:30:14] Speaker B: Yeah. The two other moments that really stand out to me because that's a while ago now that really stick with me. A really touching one. Is that fine? I think anyone who does a play that there's lots of rehearsals, you kind of become a family anyway. But there's a scene in the show where everybody's in a giant circle holding hands and are very emotional towards the end. And we were all actually weeping on stage because it was our final show. [00:30:40] Speaker A: And at tevka, isn't that the song you're singing at that point? Oh, yeah. It's heartbreaking. [00:30:44] Speaker B: Yeah. But, like, you know, we all cried during the show, but we were actually, you know, sure. [00:30:50] Speaker A: Oh, well, God was crying. [00:30:51] Speaker B: Not yet. It was just so emotional that it was done. And then another humorous one is that my english teacher was in the front row with her husband, who I'd never met, and two of our teachers, our music teacher and our theater teacher. So Mister Howlett and Mister Barrington, two of my favorite teachers, they were in the show as well. So there were some adults in the show, and my english teacher told me that her husband leaned over at one point, pointed at me and said, is she new on the staff? I don't recognize her. She's like, she's 16. She's in my english class. But the makeup they did on me was phenomenal, but more so than that. Like, I had to become an old woman. [00:31:37] Speaker A: And that's exactly right. You had to fill reasons that show. Yeah, but that's exactly right. Makeup aside, you still have to fill the character's skin, and it's theater, so you have to project that out to the back row too. [00:31:58] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. And I just, I loved disappearing, and that was what was fun for me. And not just disappearing, but being able to make someone feel something or laugh while doing that. So it was fun for me and. [00:32:14] Speaker A: Fun for the audience who, it's not so much disappearing. Vanishing. It's vanishing into a character that you've created. Yeah, it's going, it's not disappearing. It's, no, no, no, no, it is. You created a variation of yourself. [00:32:32] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:32:33] Speaker A: That's really what you're doing, but it's a variation of you that is accommodating these other characteristics. And youre, you're trying to fill the projection in your head out in, into the world. [00:32:46] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:32:47] Speaker A: It's a very abstract thing to do and therefore hard to do. Well, you know. All right, so the bug bite. [00:33:00] Speaker B: If I were an old jewish lady, that was the version. [00:33:04] Speaker A: All right. You went to school in Toronto, you went to, you graduated. It was a drama. A drama majortaindeh. [00:33:13] Speaker B: I am a major, yeah. At York University. [00:33:15] Speaker A: At York, that's right. And then you had some early success. [00:33:22] Speaker B: Oh, would we call it that? I don't know. [00:33:27] Speaker A: Yeah. You got a tv show. You got some. [00:33:30] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, yeah. Pretty quickly. Yeah. I just, the weirdest occurrence, I was living not in a small town like Gander, Newfoundland, where I'm from, but I was living in North Bay, Ontario, and I was really there because I was there with my ex, who was in the military, so it's a military base there, similar to how I ended up out here. And just a few years before I moved to the United States, some television stuff started happening there. It was kind of slowly trickling in. And I was on the west coast visiting my brother, who was living in Edmonton at the time, and a friend wrote me and said, kids in the hall are in town holding auditions. And I was like, I don't know. I'm assuming you're familiar with kids in the hall if your audience is not the kind of Canadian Saturday Night live of the nineties. And some of them were on Saturday Night Live, very, very talented group of guys, and they play almost all of their characters, whether they're men or women or adults or children. They play all their characters, and they are absolutely hysterical. And I watched them when I was far too young to be watching them. So these are some of my comedic idols. And I thought, there's no way this is true, because as far as I knew, they weren't even together anymore. They didn't have a show anymore. But what they were doing was coming back with a mini series called death comes to town, and I wasn't there. I was like, are you kidding me? Like, I in the town that I live in, and I'm not there. And I was so devastated to find out it was actually true. And I'd missed these auditions. And so I decided I was going to write a letter to the casting director, and I found out where she lived in Toronto. I lived about 4 hours from there. I and I drove 4 hours and put it in her mailbox because I didn't want a chance that it was going to get lost, and I wanted it to get there as soon as possible. And I wrote what I thought to be a humorous letter. It may have been absolutely ridiculous, I don't know, saying how big of a fan I was, that I'm an actor. I wasn't in town. I missed these auditions, and if there was anything at all available. I'd love to get the chance to meet with her or for her to see me. And several months passed. I never heard anything. And then I was on summer vacation and in Newfoundland, and I said, huh? I haven't checked my voicemail in a while. And I applied for thing. Let's see. So I checked my voicemail, and sure enough, there is a voicemail from someone from production with kids in the hall asking if I would like to work with them for the duration of their three month shoot as their utility stand in. Now, as much as I adore film, and that was always my goal, I'm still theater right now. So I'm like, I don't know what a stand in is, but yes, yes, I will do that for three months. I was working at a bank at the time, and I put my two week notice in, and I had the summer of my life learning film from top to bottom from my idols in. [00:36:56] Speaker A: Comedy and getting paid as well. [00:37:00] Speaker B: Yeah. And so a couple days in, Bruce McCalla from. From kids in the hall, he kind of took me under his wing as his pet on set, and we became friends, which was really funny because, like, bruce is. He's just a darling. He's so sweet. But he was also the executive producer. So when he would come on set, people kind of shut up and get back their backs to the wall. And they were kind of intimidated by him. And I just, I wasn't in that category, but I also, I wasn't gravitating towards him. I was being respectful. But for some reason, he gravitated towards me. And we became best of friends for the whole time, but just, I didn't know him yet. But two days after we had our first conversation, the first ad pulled me aside and said, hey, do you think you could get someone to cover your shit tomorrow? Why? Bruce would like to see you read for a role in the auditions are during filming. And I was like, yeah, I don't know. Yep. Yes. Again, I didn't know who was going to film, but I'm going to find that out. So I went and I had someone fill my role on set, and I went and auditioned. Bruce was not in the room because he was on set, but I auditioned for, I think, the bailiff in the court and some other character. It was just a couple lines because, like I said, the guys, they play all the roles, but this was a mini series, so they had to flesh it out with some other people. And I was so excited. It seemed like it went well. And then I went back to set the next day, and crickets. Nobody says anything. Don't know what's going to go on. And then another day passes, and I'm starting to go, oh, my gosh. Was I just terrible? Oh, no. Did I embarrass myself in front of kids in the hall? And eventually, a couple days later, I think it was the second ad pulled me aside, said, hey, just wanted to let you know that Bruce absolutely loved your tape. He thought you were really funny. But they decided, because of the nature of the joke, which was a very risky joke, Dave Foley's gonna play it. The other kid's in the hall. And so I lost the role to Dave Foley. [00:39:27] Speaker A: Hey, that's. [00:39:29] Speaker C: Yeah, it is. [00:39:30] Speaker A: Okay. [00:39:30] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. [00:39:31] Speaker B: So I was like, I understood, but I was also obviously inside, like, I'm gonna go home and kill myself. I was so sad. I was so, so sad. And then the next day, I came back and they rushed me into hair and makeup and without a word, didn't know what's happening. I am normally the stand in, which is hysterical. A utility stand in. For those of you who don't know what a stand in is, you're the person who stands in for an actor. You usually look something like them so that they can light you while the actor is off getting ready. [00:40:00] Speaker A: Same height, usually. [00:40:01] Speaker B: Same color. [00:40:03] Speaker A: Yeah. Just so that the lights look. It's kind of like how it's going to look. [00:40:07] Speaker B: Yeah. But I was what's called a utility stand in, and I was a stand in for all of the guys. So mark McKinney, which is very tall, and then Bruce, who's very short. None of these people do I look like. But it was a really, really fun job. Anyways, they threw me into hair and makeup, and I ended up working for four days in front of the camera constantly in a two shot with Bruce as his sidekick to his character, big city, which is a really funny, ridiculous lawyer. And I'm just kind of the model assistant district attorney that goes in with him, who carries a boombox on her shoulder, because that makes sense, of course. Boombox and a mini skirt. So. But, yeah, it was so much fun. And the highlight of that for me was when the producer and the director pulled me aside after day one and they said, we didn't realize how important this character was until we saw you in it, because all of your reactions with Bruce, like, it's really. You're making her, like, a full. She wasn't a. You know, she didn't have lines, but she was fully a character in these scenes. With, with Bruce. And they were just over the moon and so kind. [00:41:25] Speaker A: They needed a body and they got an actress. [00:41:27] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. And they were just really, really stoked about that. And obviously it gave better than getting. [00:41:34] Speaker A: The bailiff, and it gave the bit depth. Uh oh. [00:41:42] Speaker B: I froze for make much of a big deal of it because it's like a featured position, but it really is a character that is a real person. And, you know, it's really, really fun. [00:41:54] Speaker C: I'll chime in and say, like, having seen Leah act in multiple types of projects, it's very widely different characters and stuff like that. That is one of her, like, skills is she can always bring a depth to a character that maybe isn't necessarily on the page or I something like that. Just even, just like, she'll just kind of throw in these little moments, just these little things that make you go, oh, this is like, this isn't just someone saying lines. This is a person, and they have a life beyond what we see on screen. And it's always really cool. [00:42:24] Speaker A: It makes all the difference in the world. [00:42:26] Speaker C: It's. [00:42:27] Speaker A: Having cast a lot of actors, I would say I've never, ever hired an actor to act. [00:42:34] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:42:35] Speaker A: Cause the camera will see them acting. Acting you can do on stage. Cause you gotta project it to someone in the back row. The camera is here, and if you act, it's just gonna see it. We're gonna have to cut it. It's gonna end up on the floor. I always hired actors to be as themselves, really as honestly as they possibly could be. [00:43:04] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:43:04] Speaker A: We'll give another name, some dialogue, some fancy dialogue. Some asshole writers think we're sticking an actors mouths. But really, I just want them to be as honestly as they can, you know, the emotions that these characters are going through. Yeah. I need them to be those emotions. [00:43:27] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:43:28] Speaker A: And so that what the kids in the hall guys were reacting to was the fact that you took the bit. Well, one plus one suddenly equaled five, because it really, that defined the character better than just the character having nothing really reacting to him. [00:43:50] Speaker B: Right. [00:43:51] Speaker A: And to really, it's the perfect improv. Yes. [00:43:55] Speaker B: And, right. Yeah, yeah. It's really fun to look back at because you can see that he's enjoying that. He had me there. [00:44:06] Speaker A: Well, when you're doing comedy, and again, these guys came out of improv too. [00:44:12] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:44:12] Speaker A: And so you appreciate when someone. Yes. When you're an improv trained in improv and someone, oh, you know how to do this too. Cool, cool, cool. Well, then you feel a certain safety, a security working with that person, because they won't say no. [00:44:29] Speaker B: Right. [00:44:30] Speaker A: And that's. That's the killer of creativity, is. Is the word no. [00:44:35] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [00:44:37] Speaker A: Well, he got that. You got. [00:44:40] Speaker C: And so you got everybody getting. [00:44:46] Speaker A: That's. Wow. So good early success that not, hey, it didn't make you a star, but it taught you a ton. [00:44:58] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. I mean, I think I learned more in those three months than I ever would have if I had gone to film film school or had worked a couple days here and there. I mean, I just. It was. It was a. [00:45:11] Speaker A: It was a masterclass. [00:45:12] Speaker B: Yeah, it was a masterclass. And it confirmed for me, truly, that it was what I want to do, because everyone thinks that film is fun and easy, and it is grueling and hard, and the hours are nuts, and I'd have to. I actually have narcolepsy, which I learned that year. And I used to have to take, like, a ten minute nap on lunch so I could go through everything. But it was still the best time I had ever. And I think. I think a lot of people. I mean, it was fun because you're watching these guys and they're hysterical, so every day you're laughing, which is great. But it was just so good that my first national set confirmed for me that I was in the right spot. Just, I knew that I fit there and that the work was something I was willing to do after three months of nonstop. Yeah. [00:46:12] Speaker A: How did you make the leap from wannabe filmmaker to professional filmmaker? Jacob? [00:46:21] Speaker C: I think it just kind of slowly, gradually happened. So we. After Fifi, things really took off for me and my brother. We just kind of kept making very dumb little short films together. And, you know, it's. We. That was kind of our film school for a long time. [00:46:41] Speaker A: Like, who were you emulating in particular at that time? [00:46:48] Speaker C: We. What we would tend to do is we would choose some popular movie or so, just some movie that we liked at the time, and we would usually make a sequel to that movie. So we made Jurassic park, you know, three, four, five, and six, you know, way before they actually made Hollywood did. So we were ahead of the game on that. [00:47:05] Speaker A: They ripped you off, those motherfuckers. [00:47:08] Speaker C: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, we'll see you in court. But, yeah, we would do that. We'd make, like, James Bond ripoffs. We were a big Jackie Chan fan, so we did some Jackie Chan type stuff, you know. You know, of course, we're elementary school age, so these are all very, very bad movies. Just kids messing around, basically, with the camera pointed at him. [00:47:31] Speaker A: So there's a guy named Spielberg who started that exact same way. [00:47:37] Speaker C: Really? I'll have to look him up. [00:47:40] Speaker A: This is. Not all of us start that way. Yeah, but a lot of us. Yeah, I mean, I made my first ones when I faced first movies when I was twelve. [00:47:49] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. There is some sort of draw to it when you're a kid. Just that, trying to recreate what that magic you're seeing on screen. And just like, I was always very drawn to it and saw, watched a lot, you know, you don't see them as much on tv these days, but there used to be, like, a lot of, like, special effects, like, how did they do it? Type specials on tv and stuff like that. And I would try to catch any of them that I could and learn things and what. What I could, I would try to implement, you know, as far as elementary school kids could do. But, yeah, we just kind of kept doing that over the years and really never stopped. And so I think eventually they started getting better and we started to get a little bit more structure. And I did eventually go to film school at Oklahoma City University, where I've learned under two great people, Fritz Kirsch and Gray Fredrickson. And what did they. [00:48:43] Speaker A: What did they teach you? [00:48:45] Speaker C: They. What I really enjoyed about that film program was it was a really healthy blend of the production side and the, like, film studies side. So that's where I was really introduced to things. You know, I went there, you know, excited to learn about Star wars and Godfather and all these, like, really big movies that everybody knows, obviously classic, great movies, but they expanded that reach to. I was a little bit ahead of people because I did, like, a lot of classic film and like, you know, I'd like, you know, those universal monsters and stuff like that. But still, there was a lot of classic american cinema that I hadn't seen. [00:49:25] Speaker A: What was, what was the revelation? What was. Were there any particular films that. [00:49:30] Speaker C: Wow, totally. Yeah, definitely. Once we started getting into, like, the international films, the one that has always stuck out to me was Bernard Herzog, Zagiri, wrath of Goddess, starring the insane Claus Kinski. It was definitely one of those where I was just like, oh, wow, movies can do this. It just kind of started to change my perspective of, not just movies weren't just entertainment, they could also be something much bigger than that and a human expression and stuff like that. And I kind of. I then kind of dove into. I loved Werner Herzog, but then also I was really drawn to, like, the french new wave and stuff like that. Truffaut and I love the Jean Pierre Melville. There's, yeah, I just suddenly realized there's, there's obviously a lot of great american movies, and we watched a lot of those too, but the international cinema definitely was what kind of turned my world upside down a little bit and made me kind of think about things a little bit differently. And so I now, as a filmmaker, like, I, I still like the. [00:50:46] Speaker A: I. [00:50:47] Speaker C: Like to try to find that, that, that blend or that healthy balance of, like, what is fun and entertaining. But also maybe, you know, in the subtext, there's something deeper there that you can find either about, could be about, you know, yourself or humans, or maybe it's just me expressing something I'm going through, but, you know, is there a way we can. Like, my future film Shifter is a time travel horror movie, but in a lot of ways, it's also kind of an exploration of, like, grief and depression and stuff like that. But told with time travel as one does. Exactly. Yeah, that old story. Um, but, yeah, yeah, I, uh. That was a very illuminating time for me as a filmmaker. And then, you know, also on the other side, it was just really great for just learning, you know, the basic stuff, like how do you set up a c stand? Where does the camera need to go? Yeah, stuff like that. It was just a really great experience. I learned a lot while I was there. [00:51:53] Speaker A: How did you go pro? Because you also, you make commercials, you edit. You're a cinematographer as well. You wear many hats on a film set. [00:52:07] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. Whatever comes my way, I'm willing to give it a try. Yeah. I was really drawn to cinematography, especially through school. And actually, when I was going through film school, when I went into it, my plan was to be more of a cinematographer. I didn't really have any plans to write or direct, but it kind of was a kind of a newer film school, and so there just wasn't a lot of stuff being a lot of the other students weren't making stuff yet. And so for me to get behind the camera, I ended up needing to make my own stuff to give me an excuse to be behind the camera. And then, of course, you know, sit in the director's chair or whatever, and you get bit by the bug and it's all over from there. [00:52:49] Speaker A: Hey, look, I'm God. [00:52:51] Speaker C: Yeah, it's a nice feeling, but, yeah, so really from there, it just kind of started. I started doing some assistant camera stuff and then just kind of worked my way up from there. I did assistant camera, and then I would start doing camera operating for some productions and commercials or whatever, whatever was around. And then I did one thing that was really great experience was there's a feature film that was filming here called Heaven's rain, and I'm very fortunate I got to act. They were still working on actual film then. I think that was the last film I worked on with actual film, but I was able to get on as like, a camera pa and work with a true full team of people. Actually, the film, it's called bringing up Bobby, it was directed by Bumpka Janssen, who was in the X Men movies, and she was a Bond girl and everything, and she wonderful, sweet lady. I really loved working on that set, but, yeah, I worked as a camera pa on that and learned a lot about camera department, learned a lot about how a director and a cinematographer worked together, learned how, how hard it is to do that, how many heavy things you have to carry and how many stairs you have to walk down with those heavy things. But, yeah, so from there, you know, I started making contacts with other people, and from that, I ended up getting my first, like, kind of professional paid gig as a camera assistant. Was actually for an MTV reality show that was filming in the area, and that was grueling. [00:54:40] Speaker A: But you were getting paid. [00:54:42] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, I was getting paid, and that was like a three months or so. [00:54:46] Speaker A: Yeah, but that had to feel good. You finally. [00:54:50] Speaker C: Yeah, it had a lot of responsibility. Like, I was the one ac for, like three cameras on most days, we were following a football team, so three cameras on, like, normal weekdays, but then on game days, there was like seven cameras, and I was like having a run all over the stadium with batteries and cards, whatever they needed. I had this, like, heavy backpack loaded down, running while, while there's a football game happening around me. [00:55:15] Speaker A: So you wouldn't work in the movies, do you? [00:55:17] Speaker C: Exactly. But, yeah, so that was my first professional paid gig and same thing. You know, you just keep meeting people along the way and people need something and they give you a call. Worked on a lot of short films, and then eventually, yeah, started doing, like, cinematography stuff, and I always tend to shoot my own stuff throughout the year, so I was still getting practice with, with that, but as a professional, yeah, it's so much of it. It's just who you know and who knows you and being available and in the right place at the right time. [00:55:53] Speaker A: Indeed. So, okay, so, so Jacob is off doing Jacob stuff, and Leah is off doing Leah stuff. How do the Jacob bubbles and the Leah bubble crash into each other? [00:56:10] Speaker C: It's funny. So I think we knew of each other and had seen each other's projects here or in Oklahoma City. And so we just kind of had a general respect from each other, but we hadn't really met each other or really conversed or anything like that. And I actually had worked for a company and as an editor, and Leah had done acted in some of those projects, and so some of her stuff came across my computer as stuff to edit before we'd ever met. And so that was kind of my first introduction to, I've cut you. Yeah, exactly. [00:56:52] Speaker B: We were actually friends for a while before I knew that. And then when I found out, I was like, whoa, you edited all of those? Why don't you tell me? He's like, it's kind of creepy thing to say. I used to have to look at you a lot. [00:57:12] Speaker C: But, yeah, that was my first kind of interesting. I'd seen her act in some things, but then, like, actually seeing all the different takes and seeing, you know, her performance and how, you know, like, as an editor, you know, I was crafting it, but, you know, she gave so many, you know, each take. What, you know, some actors, they give you one usable take, and all the others aren't that great, but Leo was one of those that, like, every take was usable, but also unique. And so you could kind of play it. [00:57:37] Speaker A: She actually made it hard. She made the work. Exactly hard is what you're saying. [00:57:41] Speaker C: So I didn't like her. I did not like her. [00:57:44] Speaker A: Oh, can you just do it the same fucking way? Would you please stop being creative? [00:57:50] Speaker C: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, what the heck? So, yeah. And then it was a few years later. I don't know. Do you want to tell us? That's how we actually started, how we met. [00:58:05] Speaker B: Like, I, there's been so many different almost meets. I'm not actually sure which one you're. [00:58:13] Speaker C: Referencing, but I think, what's the movie version? Well, yeah. [00:58:18] Speaker B: So you're talking about stick up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, um, Chris Oz McIntosh, who you also met and saw our film, his film Flint at North Hollywood cinefest. [00:58:34] Speaker A: Indeed. [00:58:34] Speaker B: He made a, another film a few years ago called stick up, and he hired Jacob to be his cinematographer. And at the time, Chris and his wife were putting a roof over my head during the pandemic. And so I offered my services. I said, you know, put me to work. I can work on your set. And he said, leah, you know, you're an actor. I can't ask that of you. I don't. I was like, you are putting a roof over my head. Let me help. And so he made me Jacob's second acoustical. And it was, what, a five day shoot? [00:59:19] Speaker C: I think like four maybe. [00:59:20] Speaker B: Okay. And it was overnight in a gas station during the pandemic during Oklahoma Heat in July, wearing masks. Just completely disgusting this whole time. But it was also a comedy that we're shooting, which was always fun. And Jacob and I and his first AC, Jake, that didn't get confusing at all. Bonded in the candy aisle over. Over the chocolate bars that are there because I was explaining which ones are in Canada or the canadian version and how much better they taste. And he said I had to prove it. So the next time I came back from Canada, I came with this box of samples of canadian chocolate. [01:00:10] Speaker C: So much chocolate. So much chocolate. [01:00:12] Speaker B: He didn't think I would do it, but I did. [01:00:15] Speaker A: And the verdict is, are they better? [01:00:20] Speaker C: You know, a lot of them are. [01:00:24] Speaker B: A lot of them. He's trying to appeal to the american audience. [01:00:29] Speaker A: There's no point being a homier dude. [01:00:31] Speaker C: Most of them are. [01:00:32] Speaker B: Most of the water main offender is the. Is the Kit Kat. I thought when I moved, I didn't like Kit Kats anymore. It turns out it's just a completely different recipe in this country. [01:00:44] Speaker C: Everybody needs to try canadian kit Kat at some point. [01:00:46] Speaker A: Yeah, I don't think there's much chocolate in the american kit Kat. [01:00:51] Speaker B: Cardboard and plastic, but yeah. So I brought back the chocolate and we became fast friends. And I. Not long after that, his brother was casting. Hell hath no fury. Although it was Zachary's idea, I think, to have read for it, wasn't it? [01:01:09] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah. He brought your name up when we were trying to think of who we could possibly go to because it's the role in hell. Half Del Fury is extremely difficult and extremely. We just had no idea who we're going to find that could pull this off. And it was to the extent that we were like, if we can't find somebody, we're not going to half ass it. Like, if we don't have this lead role filled, then there's no point making this movie because there's no way it's going to be good. So we. But yeah, she was one of the names that Zachary brought up as a possibility. And I immediately was like, well, yeah, that obviously sounds great. I've seen a lot of her work and I. [01:01:52] Speaker A: Did you read for me? [01:01:53] Speaker B: I think she did, yeah. Yeah. And you want to tell that story? [01:02:01] Speaker C: Nah, she got the part. [01:02:06] Speaker B: Yeah, it was. It was actually a self tape because, again, pandemic. So, yeah. Chris Ozmacintosh, he actually taped it with me. He was my reader, and we had a hoot doing it because it's a. I don't want to spoil anything as when it becomes available, I want people to not have heard the spoilers on here. But it was a very epic scene they had me audition with, and it was really, really fun to do. And, yeah, I mean, the writing in that film, it's the only screenplay that I've sat down and read that when I was reading it alone at my place, I was laughing out loud, turning the page, just laughing out loud. And I feel like the last time that I ever did that was probably for a stage play. You know. You know, stage plays have really, if it's a comedy, often have really strong writing. But when it comes to comedy and films, especially indies, I don't see that a lot. [01:03:10] Speaker A: So where is that project presently? [01:03:14] Speaker C: It is. So we can't say anything yet officially, but we will have news on where everyone can find it very soon. We're very excited about that. Big news is on its way. Yeah. [01:03:29] Speaker A: Excellent. So it will be distributed? [01:03:34] Speaker C: Yes, yes. Yeah, yeah, I think we can say that. Yeah. [01:03:39] Speaker A: All right. But, you know. All right, I. There will be the means for people to see it. Theatrically or digitally? [01:03:52] Speaker C: Digitally. Yeah. [01:03:53] Speaker A: Well, hey, digital distribution. There's money in that. There's probably more money in that. [01:03:58] Speaker B: Are we allowed to say the other one? [01:04:02] Speaker C: We don't know what we're allowed to. [01:04:03] Speaker B: Say, so that's why, ironically, we're probably going to find out. [01:04:09] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:04:12] Speaker B: We will have big news tomorrow. [01:04:14] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:04:14] Speaker C: There we go. [01:04:15] Speaker A: We can always drop in an update. [01:04:17] Speaker C: There we go. [01:04:17] Speaker B: But, yes, unless something changes, it doesn't look like there will be a theatrical release, but there will be multiple other ways that it can be enjoyed. [01:04:27] Speaker A: Even better. Yes, even better. Theatrical is dead. [01:04:34] Speaker B: Don't break my heart singing out loud makes it true it's. [01:04:42] Speaker A: Last. All right. You are trying to. Despite the vicissitudes, the extreme vicissitudes of the film business, currently, you are still fighting the good fight. And you've got, you know, you made. You created content and then you found distribution for your content. So there's the potential to make a little bit of something back that's not so easy to do. The odds were extremely against you to get anything done. But to get to this point. [01:05:29] Speaker B: Well, this isn't your first movie that you've had distribution on, Jacob, but any. [01:05:35] Speaker A: Any movie. I mean, it just. It's so fucking hard. [01:05:39] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:05:40] Speaker A: Harder now than ever. It's not getting easier. [01:05:43] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:05:44] Speaker B: Interesting tidbit on this movie, specifically with distribution. The distributor found our film at the same festival that we met you in Chattanooga. [01:05:54] Speaker A: At Chattanooga. [01:05:54] Speaker C: Oh. [01:05:55] Speaker B: And they reached out. Yeah. [01:05:59] Speaker A: The. What is it like doing the festival circuit? How many festivals have you been to with this movie? [01:06:11] Speaker C: I don't know. I'd have to count that up. The festival scene and circuit is very. Has its ups and downs. It's very hard. There's just so much competition out there. It's really hard for your film to stand out, and you get. Just. Part of the process is you're gonna get rejected by a lot of festivals, no matter the quality of the film. It's just a fact of life. But when you can, like. And we were extremely fortunate with hell half no fury getting into places like Chattanooga, no host in a festival. Um, where else did we get into? We got into a lot of great festivals and, um. And luckily had a really great response from the crowd every time. Like it. Anytime you make a comedy, you want people to laugh in the right places at the right time. And we, uh, we were always very pleased and, you know, like, even us, like, we're all very proud of the movie, and we laugh just as much as everybody else is, but it's always a great feeling, of course, like, some of our best screenings were kind of our hometown screenings at, like, dead center film festival. [01:07:22] Speaker B: Yeah, we had 500 people show up. [01:07:24] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, we sold out our screenings here, and we're the talk of the town during that festival. And it was just a really great feeling. [01:07:37] Speaker B: Yeah, it really. You know, when we had those screenings here at our Oklahoma premiere, we had already premiered. We premiered in New York, but our Oklahoma premiere was at Dead center film festival. And that's the one we had the two sold out screenings. And like Jacob was saying, everybody laughed in the right places. And it was wonderful. It was such a great experience. But you're also aware that at least a third of that audience, if not more, are your friends. So you're always thinking, like, maybe they're leading the laughs. But what was so great about being able to tour from New York to LA with it? Washington. Except for that screening, really. We were screening to strangers, and every screening we had, the jokes landed and in the right places and different audiences would discover different bits, or they might laugh harder at one joke than another, or one might, you know, there might be a couple chuckles, and then in a different one, they're just dying at that bit, you know? So it's just. It was fascinating. And also, that was when we knew we might have a chance with distribution, because if the strangers are liking it just as much as your hometown. And then we had virtual screenings, and we're like, man, this is really hard because it's a comedy, and even a blockbuster comedy, you want butts in the seats at the theater because it helps people break out into laughter when the people in front of them, behind them, next to them, are laughing. But we were. [01:09:03] Speaker A: Comedy is especially a group experience. [01:09:07] Speaker B: Right, exactly. You can enjoy it more, and you might not even find a movie funny that you watched alone, but watch it with a group later, because this is funnier than I remember it being. [01:09:18] Speaker A: I had the reverse experience when I was a kid growing up, one of my early influences were the Marx brothers. And in Baltimore, where I grew up, at 04:00, in the afternoons between four and 530, when the news started, they would run old comedies, WC fields movies, Jack Okey comedies, and the Marx Brothers. [01:09:39] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:09:40] Speaker A: And I remember the first, my. I had a cousin who was two years older who was into them first, and he turned me onto it and said, you got to watch them. And I remember, first time I ever saw Groucho Marx in the movie horse Feathers singing as Quincy Adams Wagstaff. Whatever it is, I'm against it got me. You had me. You absolutely had me. And I watched Marx Brother movies by myself for years and laughed at them. I could recite them out loud. I knew them by heart. Great movies. Then I went to Vassar, and every Friday night they had classic movies and they played duck soup, and I. Duck soup was funny. Had no idea how funny it really was until you're sitting in a sold out, full auditorium with people, and it's a whole other experience. [01:10:40] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:10:41] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:10:43] Speaker A: Like nothing else, it really comes to life. [01:10:47] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:10:48] Speaker A: With an audience. [01:10:49] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. And for that reason, we were nervous at the festivals where we had virtual screenings, we just thought, oh, like, is this going to work for the folks at home? And even there, we were very pleasantly surprised, because there were chat rooms where you, each film would get a chat room and people could discuss. And, I mean, I genuinely was surprised because, like, I know the movie's funny, but I just also know that even for me, I find things funny or fun with a group. And. But the response, even virtually watching at home, was really, really overwhelmingly positive. And people were, you know, writing things, but, like, blacking them out because they want to put spoilers for things they were laughing at. And I thought, you know, maybe, just maybe, we will get distribution on this movie, because everyone seems to really enjoy it. [01:11:39] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. [01:11:41] Speaker A: What else can you tell us about hell hath no fury? That doesn't give anything away, but it's. I dare not. I don't be the one who fucks this up. [01:11:56] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:11:59] Speaker A: What else is it essential to know, or would it help to know about this terrific movie? [01:12:06] Speaker C: Yeah. So hell hath no fury is a dark comedy. It's about a husband and a wife who separately and unknowingly plan to murder each other on the same night. And of course, hijinks ensues. We took a lot of inspiration from kind of bringing our classic movie influences like screwball comedies and stuff like that. We tried to shoot it and block it in such a way. That's one of the reasons we needed someone of Leah's caliber. And then want to give a shout out to Jake's novel, who plays the husband, Silas, who also just the two of them have just such great chemistry. And the two of them, and then my brother Zachary, did pretty extensive rehearsals ahead of time to really flesh out all these moments and really lock down the blocking and stuff like that. So it's a very unique movie. We kind of were. It kind of came out of frustrations of trying to get bigger projects off the ground, and we were like, we just need to do something fun and something for ourselves, and if anybody else likes it, great. But ultimately, we just wanted to make ourselves laugh and just have some fun on a film set again. And it truly was, like, easily probably the most fun I've ever had on a film set. Like, we just had a really great cast, really great crew. Like, just everybody really gelled, moved very fast, very efficiently, but we made a very unique film. There's not really, you know, the closest I could say is, you know, like some. Some of the Coen brothers movies, like, kind of a little heightened in style, overall aesthetic and stuff like that. But even then, I think we kind of have created something new, very energized, very fun. We always see our influences for, like, screwball comedies like Arsenic and old Lace, some dark comedies like Fargo or Clue, and also a big influence was Looney tunes. So we just kind of threw it all against the wall and saw what stuck. And luckily, people are liking it, which is a really great feeling. [01:14:16] Speaker A: Among the benefits of living this life is you get to make these projects and have these collaborative experiences. [01:14:24] Speaker C: Yeah, but. [01:14:31] Speaker A: Would you. Would you. Would you try to ward people away from this life? Or would you say, you know, what else are you going to do with your life? What are you going to sell insurance so what are, on balance, if you had to talk? Okay, let's frame the question this way. If today Leah and today Jacob had to sit down and talk to earlier Jacob and earlier Leah about doing this madness, what would you tell them? [01:15:04] Speaker B: Well, I actually, I also coach actors. And what I will always say to my students is, if you don't absolutely love this, if there is anything else that you love more, go do that. Because as glamorous as this may seem, when your butt's in a theater seat and you're watching a movie, that's such a small part of what goes in to making just one or making a scene or creating a scene. It's just so, so, so much work. And, I mean, the reality is, it is filled with lots of disappointment. I have been doing it my whole life, so obviously there is lots of joy in it as well. But I would say the main reason I still do it is because there's nothing I love more. Because there are days it's like, why? Why is this? And, God, why did you give me this? Because I really do feel like it found me. Because it's just what it really feels like is what I was supposed to do. It's what all of my gifts are geared towards is entertainment and making people feel. And just the study of people is something I naturally do when I'm not working. So. And the care that I have for it, that's the other thing. A lot of people now, especially where people can shoot things on their phone, there's a lot of stuff being made that, depending on who you're asking, if you're asking me, is not worth watching, and we're losing the hair that goes into making a movie. [01:17:09] Speaker A: The craft. The actual craft of it. [01:17:12] Speaker B: The craft, yeah. A lot of the craft comes from caring. You know, just literally caring if what you're doing is good. [01:17:20] Speaker A: There are standards to a craft. Yeah, there's crafts person ship. [01:17:29] Speaker C: Absolutely. Me and Leah were actually talking about this the other day. Like I was saying, like, I actually. There's a lot of great films being made now. Like, I love watching new films, but watching, like, classic films. Like, we watched creature from the black lagoon the other day for our. The Halloween season, getting ready for spooky season. And after the film, I was just like, man, I just get so much more inspired and excited to go do stuff, watching these old films, because, like, I. There was a different type of approach to crafting the film overall and the scenes and stuff like that. And, like, it wasn't like, it wasn't. [01:18:14] Speaker A: Like a Troma movie? [01:18:16] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Like, there. I don't know. Like, it's. There's just something about it. Like, everything just seems so much more impressive then. And low budget movies back then, big budget movies. Obviously, there's always been bad movies. That's always been a thing. But there was just a different level of craft and a different level, kind of starting level of, in order to get a film all put together, you needed kind of a certain level of knowledge and craft in the field to get it to work at all. And I think now, obviously, technology is great, and I think you could definitely make a movie on your phone, but you still have to treat it like a film, like craft, and like you're building something. And so, yeah, I think that's something like I try to instill in newer filmmakers, and it's something I have to remind myself, too. Like, I always want to. I'm still learning, you know, like, I don't think I've perfected anything. I think there's a lot for me to learn, and watching movies is a great way to do that. I think that's another thing. It's just watching movies. I think a lot of people, I'm surprised how many filmmakers I come across who really don't watch that many movies. [01:19:31] Speaker A: That's shocking, isn't it? [01:19:32] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. And I'm always surprised and, like. And unfamiliar thing. [01:19:37] Speaker A: Yeah. And they're unfamiliar with classic movies. [01:19:41] Speaker C: Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. [01:19:43] Speaker A: It's kind of like thinking you can learn how to paint or draw without doing the human figure first. [01:19:52] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. [01:19:54] Speaker A: It's. I don't know. It just seems kind of one plus one, man. You gotta get to two. [01:20:00] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:20:01] Speaker A: Okay. [01:20:04] Speaker B: And to add on to what we were talking about the other day, I think it was in the same conversation, Jacob. But I was saying, I feel like almost the fact that we do care so much and you have such vision to make your films just really pop and look different, that unless someone actually who's deciding who gets into these festivals is really a filmmaker themselves or studies film themself, they might just think it looks weird. You know, it might be a hit against that. It's so creative looking and so interesting looking and so technically sound because they're basing the comparison to what they see on tv today, which is all very flat. And there's not as much attention to the way something is lit or even something as simple as the way a scene moves and the blocking. Like you were saying, we did a lot of rehearsal for Hell House. No fury, one of the reasons we did that is because you have a lot of oners in that movie. And in order to do that, we need to make sure we're moving where the camera is going to be because we don't have 21 days to shoot this thing. We only have ten and a half. [01:21:33] Speaker A: It's much more choreographed. Yeah, indeed. What? All right, so you've got this one sorted out, apparently. What's next? [01:21:50] Speaker C: Yeah, we are. So this short film that's kind of on the film circuit now, when shadows lay darkest is kind of our take on a slasher movie. We've kind of turned that genre upside down and kind of tried to find a new angle on that. There's lots of slasher movies out there and we wanted to see if we could do something different and unique with that genre. And so the short is a proof of concept for a feature. There's a feature linked version we would like to make. So we're taking it on the circuit, hoping to build some contacts and find some opportunities to get the feature length version funded. So the short film is essentially the opening scene of the feature film. [01:22:45] Speaker A: There's an element of being watched to it that's especially creepy. [01:22:49] Speaker C: Yes. Yeah. I'm very honored that at our screening at no host cinefest, we were informed afterwards that someone walked out of it because it was too scary for them. So as a horror filmmaker, that's pretty much what you hope for. But yes, it is a film. It stars Leah Philpott and it is about a woman who is haunted and tormented by a 1970s cult horror movie slasher, who, you know, she's watching the movie, thinks it's silly, but it turns out maybe that guy on the tv screen is watching her back. [01:23:30] Speaker A: Yikes. [01:23:34] Speaker C: Yikes, indeed. [01:23:37] Speaker A: I cannot thank you both enough for spending this time because it's a lot later where you are than where I am. And you've had busy working days, too, on top of it also. [01:23:50] Speaker C: Yeah, no, an honor to be here. We're both big fans of your work and have just been. Can't tell you how much we appreciated you sharing your time with us when we were in LA and at Chattanooga and everything. [01:24:04] Speaker A: We are all craftspeople doing the same thing. So really and truly, it's. You got into the club a little after I did, but we're all in the same stupid club. [01:24:16] Speaker C: I love this stupid club. [01:24:18] Speaker A: It's. It's a crazy fucking club, man. Because you sit in this club, you go, I really wanted to get into this club. What am I, crazy? [01:24:28] Speaker B: You gotta love this club more than all the other clubs. [01:24:31] Speaker A: That's exactly it. Because if you don't. [01:24:34] Speaker C: Yeah, exactly. [01:24:36] Speaker A: It will kill you. Or you will get the thing that you think you wanted, and you'll think, I don't want that, and that's really bad when that happens. But that's a whole other conversation. Speaking of whole other conversations, please promise me that we will have a whole other conversation. We will continue this conversation. Thanks for listening, everybody. See you next time. The how not to make a movie podcast is executive produced by me, Alan Katz, by Gil Adler, and by Jason Steinhous. Our artwork was done by the amazing Jody Webster and Jason. Jody, along with Mando, are all the hosts of the fun and informative dads from the Crypt podcast. Follow them for what my old pal the Crypt keeper would have called terrible rhythm. [01:25:18] Speaker B: Crypt.